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Waivers

Author Topic: Waivers  (Read 19041 times)

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2004, 05:22:48 PM »
Andrew,

Do you have experience with insurance companies that cover training clubs and single day events for martial arts?  Have you ever heard of these companies actually paying a claim?

Thank you for any leads,

Gints
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Offline Mell

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2004, 08:31:19 PM »
I'm interested in section two of your waiver.  

I believe like you, most instructors have a career outside of teaching marital arts, so it is interesting that you make the statement that you are not in the business to train martial artists.  It appears then that for liability issues it is more advantagous to make the school sound like a "club" as opposed to a "Training Facility".

 
Sibak Mellody Porter
ANDERSON MARTIAL ARTS - Grafton, Ohio
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Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2004, 09:58:09 AM »
Gints,

Just like any other insurance, I would make sure I'm researching companies that are established and have been around for a while. Then I simply go with the lowest price.

Luckily, my gym location has a blanket insurance policy plus I am considered an official employee of the gym where my actions can be imputed onto them. (In lawsuit, one goes after the deepest pockets and it isn't me.) At the community center I am an independent contractor, which means a higher level of liability. However, Kansas has great laws protecting those working in relation to the government or non-profits. To protect myself even further, we are considering applying for non-profit status.

Now for a school or club based in a garage that does a lot of full-contact stickfighting (yeah, I've seen your website and it's awesome), I would definitely get coverage.  If not, I'm sure my home insurance agent would not be happy and might even dump me!

As for personal experience, just like John Evans below, I and the instructors I have worked with have been lucky (knock on wood). Right after this, I'll start another thread and see if we can get some input on insurance.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2004, 11:38:53 AM »
My situation is unique as I have studied the laws of my state. I highly recommend dojo insurance. We are doing more activities outside of the dojo. Even though our outside events are designed to promote the gym location or the city government's programs and is likely covered under the blanket insurance policy (I have looked into it), why take the risk of a lawsuit. While I'm confident that an angry person with a good lawyer will fail in an attempt to pierce my protection, the amount of time involved would be overwhelming. Thus we are looking into an insurance company that would give us a lower fee because of the blanket coverages we already have.

Mell, club sounds like a good idea. Better yet, check with an attorney to see if there's benefits to being a non-profit club. For a 501 (c), the dues could be tax-deductible plus some states may provide immunity from civil liability.

By the way, even if you are teaching for free, you are still liable.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2004, 09:00:16 AM »
Part 3 of Andrew's waiver:

For this reason, you agree that if you are in the class, you will take the risk of any and all injuries you may incur, and will hold Maximus Fitness and Wellness, Crestview Community Center, Hokkien Martial Arts, Andrew Evans, Sheryl Baber Evans, all other instructors, assistant instructors, and participants, harmless for all injuries, including injuries which result from any of their negligent acts or omissions, whether injuries are incurred during a regular class, an extended class, an extra class, seminar, an off-site class or a belt testing session. Participant also agrees and represents that s/he understands the nature of the activity and is in good health and in proper physical condition to participate in such activity. S/he further agrees that if at any time conditions are believed to be unsafe, s/he will immediately discontinue further participation in the activity. Participants also understand that any medical treatment will be first-aid only and hereby request such.

If any of your children are in the class, you represent that you have the legal right to make this agreement on their behalf, and that you and your children take the risk of any and all injuries to your children, and on behalf of yourself and your children, you agree that you, they, any personal representatives, and/or heirs will hold Maximus Fitness and Wellness, Crestview Community Center, Hokkien Martial Arts, Andrew Evans, Sheryl Baber Evans, all other instructors, assistant instructors, and participants, harmless for all injuries to you or your children, including injuries which result from any of their negligent acts or omissions, whether injuries are incurred during a regular class, an extended class, an extra class, seminar, an off-site class or a belt testing session.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Rock

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2004, 11:55:26 PM »
By the way, even if you are teaching for free, you are still liable.

Does this include the usual get together "garage practice session", not training, just "practice"
Noel Araki
Hawaiian Kajukenbo Association
Mililani, Hawaii
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Offline Rob Poelking

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2004, 10:10:36 AM »
Andrew,

Would you recommend a school to go LLC to protect their personal assets?
Rob Poelking, Black Belt, Original Method
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Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2004, 12:58:41 PM »
Does this include the usual get together "garage practice session", not training, just "practice"

Rock, I honestly don't know. My initial inclination is to say no but I'm sure the owner of the garage would be liable. This would probably mean that the homeowner's insurance will end up paying in the event of an injury and being cancelled. (Good luck replacing the insurance policy if this happens.)
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2004, 01:02:01 PM »
Would you recommend a school to go LLC to protect their personal assets?

Any layer of protection is a good thing. I previously mentioned a tax-exempt or non-profit status. An LLC, limited liability corporation, is also a good idea. Please check with a license attorney in your state for more information on this. A couple hundred dollars spent now can save you thousands in the future.

Andrew
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2004, 01:44:54 PM »
Part 4 and final part of Andrew's waiver:

You or parent/legal guardian also grant full rights to use any pictures or images taken in connection with these classes for promotional uses and waive compensation in regards to this use.

Since this agreement will apply to all future class sessions, it will not be necessary to sign another waiver when registering for future sessions.

Date:  _______   Your Name: ____________________  
                                      

Names of your children who will be in the class:    

___________________________________         ___________________________________
___________________________________    

Your signature:   ________________________________

(All class members under the age of 18 must also have a parent or legal guardian sign this waiver)

Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Chief Instructor

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Re:Waivers
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2004, 09:29:47 PM »
Even though it meets my needs, please keep in mind that my waiver is not a perfect document. I am currently working on making a generic version that Rob will make available.

If you are interested in seeing the whole thing at once, please check out http://hokkien.uuft.org/waiver.doc
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: Waivers
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2006, 12:07:28 PM »
LLCs or incorporating is generally a good idea for most businesses that carry a public liability but you need to keep them at arms length from your personal affairs so that should you be sued, the moving party will most assuredly attempt to break the corporate veil. If you do not keep arms length they have a better chance of being successful.

My general stand on contracts and waivers and the like is that they including statutory and common law only protect you to the depth of your pocket. In general it is better to develop relationships of trust and respect rather than rely on a piece of paper with some words on it to protect you and what you have amassed.

As previously stated, you should seek the advice of a professional licensed and familiar with your area. The money you spend on attorneys and accountants is generally expensive but well worth it towards the long term viability of your business.
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Offline Chief Instructor

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Re: Waivers
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2006, 01:56:15 PM »
As previously stated, you should seek the advice of a professional licensed and familiar with your area. The money you spend on attorneys and accountants is generally expensive but well worth it towards the long term viability of your business.

It's better to pay a little now for advice that would avoid a lawsuit than to pay a lot more later for representation in a lawsuit.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com

Offline Train4it

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????
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2009, 09:04:15 PM »
Hello Everyone

I was wondering if anyone has read the book titled (The legal implacations of self-defense). If you have i would like to know thoughts on it.

Shifu Jim
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Re: Waivers
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2009, 06:18:20 PM »
I have not read that book; however, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt.
Sigung Andrew Evans, KSDI #888
Hokkien Martial Arts, Topeka, KS
http://www.TopekaKarate.com