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2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE

Author Topic: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE  (Read 12267 times)

Offline Tim Vargas

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 09:24:41 PM »
I agree..............completely.

The black belt should be recognized in the original instructor's down line.

If a new student/teacher relationship is forged with another instructor to the degree that GM Harper mentioned, that should be recognized as well.

If no enmity exists between principals, things should reflect that.

If a separation or break down has occurred between principals, things should reflect that as well.

Under no circumstances should reciprocal ranking (I promote all your black belts in my system, and visa versa) be any more than honorary, and should NOT be listed on the tree.

No junior black belts should be listed. If they are that precocious they won't mind waiting.

GM Gelinas,

in previous correspondance several years ago u mentioned that you need to b contacted personally by the instructor amd is not enough for the student to claim his new status.  is that still the same today or has that changed.  just wondering since that part is missing from your post above.

tnx

p.s. i kno its more work, but may b worth the headache to verify with the student before putting their name on the tree,since there r those who just add names without promoting
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 09:44:08 PM by Tim Vargas »
Tim Vargas:  Chief Instructor directly under the late GGM Gaylord. OKO

Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2014, 08:18:33 AM »
Thank you for pointing that out.

Actually, that is correct. Students cannot put themselves on the tree without verification.

I prefer that teachers put their students on, but even that is never a guarantee of validity.

Vigilance.
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
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Offline Dave Jones

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2014, 11:24:11 AM »
I wish that I knew who are the real and who are the "not" real black belts on the tree.

I have frequently been contacted by instructors after they had put someone on in anticipation of them passing, and they either did not or never even took the test.

I just do not understand how some people think.  Why not simply ask for their names to be put on the Tree after they pass?
Why in such a rush to add names that are not "real" black belts?
Are they simply trying to get names in before you print a new Tree in order to make sure the "candidates" are already represented?

If you want their name on the Tree then you should promote them.  Period. 
If their names are on the Tree by your request then you should be obligated to award them a black belt certificate, even if it is an "honorary" one.
If you don't like the requirement then don't ask to have them on the Tree yet.  That is how I feel about it anyway.

As for "reciprocal" ranks -what we refer to as "cross-ranking"- I am opposed to it but I am aware that it is not unheard of, even in Kajukenbo.
I have my suspicions of a couple of names on the Tree now, but {as I understand it} Sijo said you can promote up to 1 rank below your own based your personal criteria so what can we do about it?

I have had someone approach me with the intent of cross-ranking.  The request was subtle, feeling me out over several weeks.
The individual (whom I like as a person) already earned a green belt from our group about 10 years before.

When I realized his end-game, I beat him to the point (punch?) and presented him with a sort of development plan:
He could earn his brown belt after a month or so of consistent classes with us, to ensure that his skills had not diminished.
That meant the possibility of taking the black belt test a year or so later.
But he balked at the idea -making excuses for why he did not have time- and stopped hinting around about getting a Kajukenbo black belt.
I thought I was being more than generous since I made the offer in recognition of his previous training and 2nd dan black belt rank in another "verifiable" kenpo branch that can ultimately trace its roots back to Hawaii.
Less than a year after our "discussion", he mentioned that he had been awarded his 3rd dan (in the same kenpo style).

To say I was surprised by the audacity is an understatement.  I will not name the well-known kenpo system he basically offered me a black belt in.
Maybe it is arrogance or something, but I would like to think a Kajukenbo black belt from me means a bit more {at least in some circles} than a black belt in another ...generally softer, less realistic and less contact-oriented... kenpo lineage.

I am not sure if my students who knew about it were more shocked by the request or the fact that he turned my offer down!
He could have hung around for the brown belt and then bailed but he did not even want that badly enough.

In other words: I do not envy the amount of work you must put into the Tree, GM Philip.  Or the amount of BS you must wade through.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 12:21:22 PM by Dave Jones »
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Offline Tony49

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2014, 02:39:53 PM »
I have two potential black belts that I wanted to add to the tree this year but we had to postpone their test due to injury (father/son team, son got injured playing rugby).  I played with the idea of submitting their names because they are ready to be black belts but the injury has hampered the testing schedule.  At the end, I decided not too and will wait until next year to submit their names.  Bird in the hand is better than two in the Bush.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 04:16:41 PM by Tony49 »
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt

Offline sifutimg

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2014, 11:19:20 AM »
I applaud your decision Tony.  I hope your Father/Son team heal fast and have a great test when it's time. 

I truly believe the validity of the Family Tree is so important and I know GM Gelinas has done this at great pain and there isn't enough time in the remainder of my life time to express the gratitude and empathy I have for GM Gelinas regarding this endeavor.  THANK YOU THANK YOU GRANDMASTER GELINAS!!!

I look forward to seeing the new tree at KSDI.

Cheers,
Tim
Professor Tim Gagnier
Student of Great Grandmaster Charles Gaylord & Grandmaster Sid Lopez
Chief Instructor Pacific Wind Kajukenbo
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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2014, 02:46:35 PM »
I agree.
THANK YOU THANK YOU GRANDMASTER GELINAS!!!
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Iakona

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2014, 08:12:54 PM »
I wish that I knew who are the real and who are the "not" real black belts on the tree.

I have frequently been contacted by instructors after they had put someone on in anticipation of them passing, and they either did not or never even took the test.

If I had that information I could challenge those people. I don't and have to accept the people that are submitted, trusting that their self respect outweighs their self interest.

I welcome this conversation. It has been a long time coming. It might open a few closets where skeletons reside, but so be it.

Aloha Sir,

I would like to pose an elephant in the room question regarding GM Angel Garcia (the self proclaimed Gold belt Sijo of Spain):

Based on the recent statements posted here from Mr. Shepherd, GM Garcia's teacher, that he did not promote anyone to black belt during his tenure in Spain, then how is it that GM Garcia is listed on the Kajukenbo tree under Mr. Shepherd, as getting his black belt from him?

I realize you only publish the information you are given. If this is one of those "it is what is" because he received subsequent promotions from Sijo, then I understand and moving on. If not, then it suggests fraud on his part and explains a lot.

Thanks for your time and effort that you put into producing the tree.

Respectfully,
GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana
Kajukenbo Hui Member

Offline Tim Vargas

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2014, 09:36:18 PM »
i was wondering the same thing in regards to how it is gm garcia is under sifu shepherd, since gm gelinas made it clear that ONLY the instructor can add a student via personally contacting him.   either sifu shepherd is mistaken or there is a double standard.  i suppose two maybe three knows, but for sure gm gelinas does.  regardless, its a nice tree from what i hav seen.

Tim Vargas:  Chief Instructor directly under the late GGM Gaylord. OKO

Offline Tony49

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2014, 11:24:20 PM »
I know its extra work but maybe a legend.

1.  Received his 1st Dan from a different instructor or maybe leaving them under the original instructor and just adding a note to their name that states they are now under such in such.  So pays respect to the tree while giving the freedom to move on in case of death or politics.
2.  Left before being promoted.

I am sure there might be some other notes that could be useful as well.
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2014, 01:55:20 AM »
GM Gelinas, may I ask how many years and hours of your life have you dedicated to the family tree?   
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Dave Jones

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2014, 08:55:49 AM »
GM Gelinas, may I ask how many years and hours of your life have you dedicated to the family tree?
I am afraid the answer will be something depressing, GM Harper...

When was the first "official" Tree printed?   Does anyone have a copy?
That would be fascinating to see and compare - at least in my opinion.

GM Philip, I hope everyone appreciates and respects what you continue to do for our Ohana.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 08:58:32 AM by Dave Jones »
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Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2014, 11:56:09 AM »
The question regarding GM Angel Garcia is valid and requires a response.

He is who he is because Sijo Emperado accepted him at his word that he had received his black belt. The question whether his black belt was actually given or "inherited" after the reported passing of his instructor remains to be established. Either way, every other rank from (5th?) to 9th was bestowed upon him by Sijo. This was in 1986 before the first one was printed and I realized the need for "rules". At the beginning I was just happy that people were supporting me in this project.

Remember, there are others who have claimed rank and were later found to have done the deed themselves. Where would we start? Would not be a pleasant time.........for anyone.

As to how many hours I have spent on this. With everything over 25 years, conservatively, 2500 hours.

The very first tree I saw had 168 names on it. That was in 1978.Most were wrong or mispositioned.

I sent the first letters out in 1985 -1986. I put the first Tree together in 1988. The first published version was in 1989. I did not have a computer yet, so it was glue, scissors, and scotch tape. The results were predictably "mixed".

I have most of my earlier (computer generated only) Family Trees on file. The earlier "hand assembled" ones might exist too but I don't know exactly where they are.

As to a legend, perhaps that would work. The problem is space. I will investigate that option.

Thanks for all the suggestions and kind words.

If I occasionally seem to be abrupt, my apologies. This gets stressful sometimes.

Philip Gelinas


 
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)

Offline Iakona

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2014, 01:57:24 PM »
The question regarding GM Angel Garcia is valid and requires a response.

He is who he is because Sijo Emperado accepted him at his word that he had received his black belt. The question whether his black belt was actually given or "inherited" after the reported passing of his instructor remains to be established. Either way, every other rank from (5th?) to 9th was bestowed upon him by Sijo. This was in 1986 before the first one was printed and I realized the need for "rules". At the beginning I was just happy that people were supporting me in this project.

Remember, there are others who have claimed rank and were later found to have done the deed themselves. Where would we start? Would not be a pleasant time.........for anyone.


Thank you for your both timely and viable response. Agreed, the situation with GM Garcia is not new to Kajukenbo. Your ability to connect the dots between the legitimate and frivolous is noteworthy, Sir.

Mahalo,
GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana
Kajukenbo Hui Member

Offline Tony49

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2014, 03:12:42 PM »
The question regarding GM Angel Garcia is valid and requires a response.

He is who he is because Sijo Emperado accepted him at his word that he had received his black belt. The question whether his black belt was actually given or "inherited" after the reported passing of his instructor remains to be established. Either way, every other rank from (5th?) to 9th was bestowed upon him by Sijo. This was in 1986 before the first one was printed and I realized the need for "rules". At the beginning I was just happy that people were supporting me in this project.

Remember, there are others who have claimed rank and were later found to have done the deed themselves. Where would we start? Would not be a pleasant time.........for anyone.

As to how many hours I have spent on this. With everything over 25 years, conservatively, 2500 hours.

The very first tree I saw had 168 names on it. That was in 1978.Most were wrong or mispositioned.

I sent the first letters out in 1985 -1986. I put the first Tree together in 1988. The first published version was in 1989. I did not have a computer yet, so it was glue, scissors, and scotch tape. The results were predictably "mixed".

I have most of my earlier (computer generated only) Family Trees on file. The earlier "hand assembled" ones might exist too but I don't know exactly where they are.

As to a legend, perhaps that would work. The problem is space. I will investigate that option.

Thanks for all the suggestions and kind words.

If I occasionally seem to be abrupt, my apologies. This gets stressful sometimes.

Philip Gelinas

Thanks for all your hard work.  And yes space is definitely a problem.  I was wondering if their was a way to buy a Electronic copy.
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt

Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2014, 09:07:53 AM »
There are two problems with electronic copies.

The first is control. Everyone promises that they will make "just one" for themselves. I am afraid that I don't have that much faith in our "best of intentions".

The music and film companies have already established the fact that their sales are way down due to people copying their products.

I once loaned a private video to one of my students with the proviso that he not pass it around to anyone at all. Later I found that he had lent it to someone "just overnight" who had also promised not to copy it etc. I saw it on You Tube a while ago.

The second is that when you have an electronic copy of a digital original, it does not take much to re enter that edition and change it and not necessarily for the better.

I wish this all were not so, but I have actually had people come to me with quality issues about a Kajukenbo Family Tree that they bought at a flea market (?). Upon further examination it seems that someone had managed to copy it (not perfectly) and the person wanted me to replace it. I apologetically declined and suggested that they approach the counterfeiter instead.

It goes on from there.

Philip Gelinas
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)