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2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE

Author Topic: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE  (Read 11668 times)

Offline Sleddog

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2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« on: June 17, 2014, 12:03:57 PM »
Last couple of weeks of Data Collection for the 2014 Edition of the KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE.

Everything has to be entered by July 1, 2014.

Copies will be available at the KSDI Gathering/Seminars/Tournament at the Riviera Hotel in Las Vegas.

I am also taking orders for those who would like a copy but will not be there.

I am available via personal message here, on Facebook under my name (Philip Gelinas) or the KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE page, and via email at
montrealmartialarts@yahoo.ca

Thank you.
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2014, 01:25:22 PM »
What about people that would like their name removed from the tree,
I know a couple of people have asked me how they can get their name removed from the line that they are under do to personal reasons.
my reply was to contact GM Gelinas and talk to him.
one would like to be moved and another line which they are now under and another would just like to be removed all together.
should they contact you now or just wait and talk to you in Vegas.
Thanks for all your long hours and hard work GM Gelinas, I don't think most people understand how many hours you have in the tree.
as well as all the calls and emails over the years.
it has to be a big pain in the butt.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Dave Jones

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2014, 04:23:06 PM »
Me and mine appreciate all of your hard work as well.

Thank you, as always
Dave Jones, CQB Kajukenbo Club - Fenton, MO
The Founders > Sid Asuncion > Alan Carter > Mike Griffin
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Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2014, 05:10:37 PM »
I believe that if you are prepared to change anything on a document like this you can then believe that everything can be changed.

My belief is that if you got your black belt from someone, that fact cannot change. The same way you cannot be unborn or ungraduate.

What instructors should do is check out their guys/girls a little more deeply before promoting them, or live with their disappointment.

I have created a way of indicating that the relationship is strained/broken but it can never really disappear.

I know that there are still a lot of unintentional errors on the FT but that does not mean that I should compound them by willful ignorance.

Sorry if you want a "Father Knows Best" kind of thing. I am a warts and all kind of guy.

The truth has always been more interesting than the cover story.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2014, 06:53:48 PM by Sleddog »
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2014, 05:44:36 PM »
yeah I know how you feel, but its not my place to answer for you so I refer those questions to you.
you are the keeper of the tree.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Dave Jones

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2014, 08:14:00 AM »
The truth has always been more interesting than the cover story.
Well said, sir.  I often wish more of us felt that way.
Dave Jones, CQB Kajukenbo Club - Fenton, MO
The Founders > Sid Asuncion > Alan Carter > Mike Griffin
Proud Life Member of the Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana
http://www.cqbkajukenbo.com/

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2014, 06:04:54 PM »
just my 2 cents if you start moving black belts from one line to another then it will not make it a tree famliy tree, it will then become im mad at that guy now put me under so in so and then you will lose who really started with who from the begining. i have black belts that i dont care for under me but i would never ask to have them removed it would just make me look bad .....just my 2 cents............

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Offline Tim Vargas

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2014, 06:42:04 PM »
just my 2 cents if you start moving black belts from one line to another then it will not make it a tree famliy tree, it will then become im mad at that guy now put me under so in so and then you will lose who really started with who from the begining. i have black belts that i dont care for under me but i would never ask to have them removed it would just make me look bad .....just my 2 cents............

                                                      gm hemenes

Good points, your 2 cents makes perfect sense, unfortunately we are not in a perfect world and there will be disagreements, errors, etc., but doesn't detract from the work GM Gelinas has put into the Kajukenbo Family Tree.  There are several blackbelts listed under several instructors, BUT where that person first blacked is NOT removed.   Just like in the world, you have people born and are adopted for various reasons, but does that mean they have no family tree?  Not at all.    When my daughter had a school project on doing a family tree, she had a classmate who was adopted.  Who to put on his tree?  Well, since he did not know his birth parents nor their lineage (country of origin) he rightly put his adopted families geneology.  Sometimes being adopted in order to have a family is all we are left with, besides opting to be an orphan altogether. 

Although you would never ask for one of your blackbelts to be removed, there are those blackbelts who have asked to be removed for either personal reasons or that person just never blacked under said instructor.   I know of a few blackbelts who never earned one, and yet they appear as though they did.   There is a master in a philipino martial art who had no idea he was named as a kajukenbo blackbelt until I told him about it.  news to him, lol!  since he is listed, there is NO way for him to be removed, even if he asked, as the rules are that rigorous.

Take care GM Hemenes.
Tim Vargas:  Chief Instructor directly under the late GGM Gaylord. OKO

sgns1173

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 03:46:51 PM »
Aloha Sifu Tim

There is a master in a philipino  "Filipino" martial art who had no idea he was named as a kajukenbo blackbelt until I told him about it.  news to him, lol!  since he is listed, there is NO way for him to be removed, even if he asked, as the rules are that rigorous.

Yes I can agree that there some names on the Kajukenbo Family Tree have not trained and/or received a black belt from any legitimate martial arts organization.  I personally aware that one particular senior Kajukenbo martial arts practitioner has six names under his family tree that never trained in Kajukenbo and/or received any black belts in the martial arts.  The aforementioned individuals I had the opportunity, personally, to worked with them at the Honolulu Police Department.  So Tim, there are inaccuracies, but GM Gelinas only inputs names that are given to him by legitimate Kajukenbo practitioners.  It is not his job to verified and/or authenticate names that are given.   Also, there is another well-known senior Kajukenbo practitioner that has submitted names to GM Gelinas to be placed on the tree when they were only color belts, and only two have received their black belts. The Kajukenbo family is a voluntary effort  by GM Gelinas and should not be construed as the Holy Bible.  IMHO, GM Gelinas has done an excellent job for many, many years.  It is GM Gelinas' prerogative how he administered the tree. 

Respectfully,

Gerry Scott
 
   


« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:52:26 AM by Kalihi/Palama Boy »

Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 04:49:37 PM »
I wish that I knew who are the real and who are the "not" real black belts on the tree.

I have frequently been contacted by instructors after they had put someone on in anticipation of them passing, and they either did not or never even took the test.

If I had that information I could challenge those people. I don't and have to accept the people that are submitted, trusting that their self respect outweighs their self interest.

I welcome this conversation. It has been a long time coming. It might open a few closets where skeletons reside, but so be it.

Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)

Offline Tim Vargas

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 06:07:55 PM »
Aloha Sifu Tim

There is a master in a philipino  "Filipino" martial art who had no idea he was named as a kajukenbo blackbelt until I told him about it.  news to him, lol!  since he is listed, there is NO way for him to be removed, even if he asked, as the rules are that rigorous.

Yes I can agree that there some names on the Kajukenbo Family Tree have not trained and/or received a black belt from any legitimate martial arts organization.  I personally aware that one particular senior Kajukenbo martial arts practitioner has six names under his family tree that never trained in Kajukenbo and/or received any black belts in the martial arts.  The aforementioned individuals I had the opportunity, personally, to worked with them at the Honolulu Police Department.  So Tim, there are inaccuracies, but GM Gelinas only inputs names that are given to him by legitimate Kajukenbo practitioners.  It is not his job to verified and/or authenticate names that are given.   Also, there is another well-known senior Kajukenbo practitioner that has submitted names to GM Gelinas to be placed on the tree when they were only color belts, and only two have received their black belts. The Kajukenbo family is a voluntary effort  by GM Gelinas and should not be construed as the Holy Bible.  IMHO, GM Gelinas has done an excellent job for many, many years.  You may want to argue the point, but it is GM Gelinas' prerogative.

Respectfully,

Gerry Scott
 
 

GM Scott,

I am sorry you misunderstood my post to GM Hemenes.  In short, I had mentioned that although there are inaccuracies, these in themselves do not DETRACT from the work GM Gelinas has put into the Kajukenbo Family Tree.   There wil be mistakes, even in *translations* of the holy bible there are mistakes due to various reasons, mostly ignorance of the original languages and their meaning, etc..  So, if people are moved around on the Tree under the instructor they are currently under, then that does not make the Family Tree disappear or have no meaning.  As I said before, as is my understanding, GM Gelinas leaves the names under the original instructor they blacked, and will move them under a new line with the new instructors permission.   So I fear you waste much time in responding to my post, but I do appreciate your time, and gives me more insight into the meaning of things.

There is nothing to argue about.  GM Gelinas has a hard job and relying on the honor of the person submitting names.  I am sorry you don't like certain conversations, but that is what this forum is for, so I hope you now better understand my message to GM Hemenes, and my acknowledgement of the outstanding work GM Gelinas has done, regardless of said mistakes.

Thanks again for your time.

Have a blessed day.
Tim Vargas:  Chief Instructor directly under the late GGM Gaylord. OKO

Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 06:25:58 PM »
well said tim,  gm gelinas has done a great job! i dont think anyone else would have put that much time into this kajukenbo tree as he has, i think the black belts that are on there need to stay where they started from if you start moving black belts becouse there mad at there teacher then like i said in my other post then it means nothing, now if someone was put in the wrong place thats different, but if a black belt wants to be moved for bs reasons well they need to stay put. just keep the bs out of the tree its been going good for all this time no need to rock the cradle now..........

                                                   gm hemenes
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sgns1173

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 10:09:06 PM »
Aloha Sifu Tim,

I apologized for not reading your post thoroughly.  The misunderstanding was on me.  My statement was was only my humble opinion concerning the family tree and the facts that I presented.  Peace and god bless.

Gerry Scott           

Note:  Tim, I have edited my posts. 
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 11:46:34 PM by Kalihi/Palama Boy »

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 08:17:54 PM »
A follow up question:

If a student receives a black belt from an instructor, let say in 5 - 7 years, and then for several possible reasons, they leave their instructor for possibly some of these reasons:


Student and instructor don't get along and the relationship has been escalated to the point of being irreparable,
Student or instructor has done something which effects one's honor,
Student moved to a location several hundreds of miles away, and/or
Student starts training under another instructor and they remain with that instructor for several years and are promoted up the ranks by that instructor, etc.


Should they not be recognized under that current instructor also?

I agree that your name should remain under your first black belt instructor on the family tree, however, I also believe the scenario above should be recognized under the 'new' instructor.

Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

Offline Sleddog

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Re: 2014 KAJUKENBO FAMILY TREE
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 08:43:38 PM »
I agree..............completely.

The black belt should be recognized in the original instructor's down line.

If a new student/teacher relationship is forged with another instructor to the degree that GM Harper mentioned, that should be recognized as well.

If no enmity exists between principals, things should reflect that.

If a separation or break down has occurred between principals, things should reflect that as well.

Under no circumstances should reciprocal ranking (I promote all your black belts in my system, and visa versa) be any more than honorary, and should NOT be listed on the tree.

No junior black belts should be listed. If they are that precocious they won't mind waiting.
Philip Gelinas
Training MA (since 1967)
Kajukenbo, Emperado & Chuan Fa Methods, (Since 1971)
KSDI, BOA
Pekiti Tirsia Kali (Under GT Gaje since 1981)
Jun Fan Gung Fu, Kali & Maphilindo Silat (Under Sifu Dan Inosanto Since 1990)
BJJ (Since 1998)