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Ba Qua Chang

Author Topic: Ba Qua Chang  (Read 11875 times)

Offline BB54

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Ba Qua Chang
« on: January 06, 2004, 02:17:06 PM »
Ba Qua Chang: Circling Step

The following is the basic description of the first basic exercise of circling.

01.   Hips tucked in and under.  The upper part of the back stretched up to the sky, the lower part of the back stretched down to the ground.  Legs are together touching as are the feet.  
02.   Step forward with the right foot which will be the foot and leg that is on the outside of the circle. About 90% of the weight is on the back leg which is the left leg. The right foot is turned into the circle about 45 degrees.
03.   Shift the body weight to the right foot and leg shifting the stance into a back leg bent "Right Forward Stance" from a short "Flexible T Stance".  
04.   Step forward with the left foot into a "Flexible T Stance".  The left foot steps straight ahead.  The leg and foot that is facing the inside of the circle steps straight.
05.   Shift the stance into a "Left Forward Stance" from the "Left Flexible T Stance".
06.   Continue the same stepping procedure eight times.  This should take you around in a circle until you reach the place of origin. The legs should rub each other while stepping protecting the groin.  Remember every step is a potential kick and every kick is a potential step.
07.   The breathing pattern is to inhale on the first four steps and exhale on the last four steps.
08.   Go around in a circle eight times, then stop and go around in a circle in the other direction eight times.

*** This is the first basic lesson of Ba Qua Chang.  The stepping pattern is called "Lion Stepping" as this is the easiest and when done quickly resembles a Lion loping across a grass field. Later I will describe "Snake Stepping" then "Chicken (Male) Stepping.
Brian Bruce Baxter. 8th Degree Black Belt Kajukenbo (Gaylord Method).  3rd Degree Black Belt Tracy's Kenpo Karate. 3rd Degree Black Belt Aikijitsu. 2nd Degree Black Belt Mu Duk Kwan.  22 years experience Yang Tai Chi Chuan.

Offline Kajukenbopr

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2006, 11:38:26 AM »
I have 3 books on Pakua. Neither one describes how many circles must be done and when the changes should be done.
Could u help me out a bit here?
Ricardo Mercado
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Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2006, 12:52:20 PM »
I have three books too. I wonder if they are the same. None of them state a specific number of circles.

When I trained at GM Vince Black's bagua, we primarly did two methods. In one, we did three circles each way for each posture. In this method, each circle usually varied from the other. For example in the first circle we could concentrate on being low. The next circle we could concentrate on being long, and possibly on the third circle we would concentrate on being smooth or fast or whatever.

The other method was to stay with divisibles of 8. The number 8 has great significance in ba gua, and I guess that is where it stems from. With this method a circle in one direction would be 32, 40 or 48 steps, then turn and do the other direction the same. The same number of steps was used for both directions with all 8 palms.

There was one other method which was known as the nine palaces. However, it did not follow one circle, rather 9 tangent circles. This method is described in one of the books that I have I believe the title is Emei Baguazhang. It is not readily available otherwise I would give a better citation.
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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2006, 01:44:39 PM »
I do quite a bit of practice with bricks.  (ie.  I practice all of my forms and techniques with and without holding bricks in hand). Just wondering if anyone else practices this way.  I find it great for strength building.  Since I started with the bricks I also find my posture improving and smoothness getting better.  After warming up with the bricks, I find that when I do my forms fast, the speed increases as well as the smoothness during the entire form, it is very noticable when transitioning.  (Ie Tiger to Snake).  My grip strength has also become noticably improved. 

Any thoughts on the subject.

I hesitate to use glass jars - could get messy and I have 3 little ones to worry about...

V/R
Dean 8)

Offline Kajukenbopr

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 10:51:31 AM »
2 of my books are by Robert W. Smith and the other one is John Bracy's "Ba Gua"
I think they have different Pakua in each book.
Both of Robert Smith's books have the linear aspects of Pakua(techniques) and the circles with the changes.
The Bracy Book gives details about the circles without going into how many times they must be walked nor how to make the changes.Probably for someone who has practiced Pakua for some time now
Ricardo Mercado
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Offline Steve

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2006, 08:29:32 PM »


  Pa kua chang have two main branch the Cheng Ting Hua and Yin Fu branch.....in the time every one for this branch have different 8 palms changes form in the circle(some had most of one forms) and linear forms(fighting forms)...I have learned the FuShen Song Pakua chang(the 8 yang palms) under Fu Shen long (Vacouver) and some the Chiang rong jiao(8 palms changes) completely different but same principles....I learned some of the Gao Yi sheng Ba gua ....the 8 palms circle and the linear....just a little bit...


    Pa kua is very special arts ....better to learned Hsing Yi first...

  Mark Do U learned the Gao style or the Liang Shen Pu style with GM Black

 Steeve
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Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2006, 05:17:07 AM »
More proficient in Liang Zhen Pu, but was introduced to both.

I was more interested in hsing yi than ba gua. However, ba gua was given more freely than hsing yi. As a result, I became more proficient in ba gua than hsing yi even though I would have preferred the reverse.

Since parting with GM Black's school, I continued to study concentrating more on hsing yi since it is a much more basic and simple style. However my studies have recently driven me back to ba gua with the understanding that it is a much better system for physical health which is why I do martial arts.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 05:22:14 AM by Mark Dinkel »
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Offline Steve

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2006, 05:28:03 PM »


 Howdy Mark

   So U learned some of the tang shou tao Hsing Yi....?

   The gao style bagua is very good to learn with the Tang shou tao Hsing Yi....since a lot of the linear form of the gao style is include in the Hsing Yi (Hung YI Hsiang or Hsu Hong Chi) in the Ba shou and the three basics tang shou tao form(Ba lien Shou,Ba bu chuan and so on...

   Its just my opinion ....to learned the Hsing Yi first and go for bagua after....

  Steeve

 
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Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 06:31:44 PM »
I agree that hsing yi would have been better to learn first, but certain constraints did not allow this.

It is my understanding advanced Hebei hsing yi has a lot of ba gua in it. I know some of the advanced tang shou tau hsing yi looks very similar to some of the gao ba gua, but I did not get to such an advanced level in either to determine if there was more than just appearance.  If I remember correctly the warm up exercises for level three hsing yi were very comparable, if not the exact same warm up set, to the gao ba gua.

When I was there, gao had only been introduced for about two years. I was only introduced to the one warm up set. Lots of forms tho. Pity I do not have them stored somehow.
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Offline Kajukenbopr

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2006, 08:31:36 AM »
i've heard about 9 stations in bagua, 9 circles.
first, one circle should be walked, then at the  next stage, 2 circles forming an 8 figure,and then 9 stations- the original circle with 8 animals(circles) around it. Even a drawing is shown for the 9 stations, but how do you move through them?(by this i dont mean order of circles but the actual transition from one circle to the other.)  :-\

Another question, whenever I'm walking the circle and desire to go the other way, do i make a change of hands, double change of hands, any of the animal changes or just stop and begin walking to the other direction? ???
Ricardo Mercado
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Offline Steve

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2006, 10:33:04 AM »


 the 9 post or pole walking are a advanced exercise....each time u change of post or pole u change direction of walking so u do a palm change.... in bagua everytime u change direction u palm change ...

 Steeve
Steve Malette
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Offline Mark Dinkel

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #11 on: July 27, 2006, 01:45:59 AM »
the 9 circles that I was shown were arranged in a magic square such that each row and each column equalled 15. I can recreate a magic square but the sequence does not sit with my memory. Here is the magic square I come up with:

                         8            6            1

                         4            2            9

                         3            7            5


In a book titled Baguazhang - Emei Baguazhang, they put the circles in the following sequence:

                        3             4            9

                        8            5             2

                        1            6             7

This type of walking is clearly for advanced walking.

As for switching directions, you are constantly doing so. One circle you walk clockwise the next counter clockwise. Walk each circle in its entirety before moving onto the next. After reaching 9, go back down. Doing so, you should walk each circle once clockwise and counterclockwise.

Personally, I find this walking a bit more difficult and distracting. There are too many other things for me to concentrate on when walking ding shyr to add a maze of circles. Maybe I just need to walk ding shyr for another decade or so before I feel more comfortable with the 9 palaces.
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Offline Kajukenbopr

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2006, 10:23:07 AM »
i have a book that teaches 8 palm changes- should i do any palm changes when changing direction or do them in order and then back?

the other has different arm position for when u walk the circle, circles inside and outside the circle- what should be done about this?

- i keep asking you people a lot of these questions... thank you for answering! ;D
Ricardo Mercado
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Offline Steve

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2006, 06:31:49 PM »


 EachStyle of Pakua have is own in the Pakua sysatem .....the 8 palms change are differents from one style to another s....each style have some different forms ...some have around 3 differents 8 palms changes some more internal (chi kung) and physical and a free forms without the circles and some linears forms...

  No esoteric stuff here just method of training  to keep urs footwork ...pakua is footwork the concept is to parry the attack and go behind the opponent and strike him on his  back...takedowns and thats it....Pakua   


  Steeve
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Ng Ga kuen Kung fu(GM Ark Yueh Wong system) under Sifu Seming Ma
Kuntao Silat De Thouars Honor to Guru Tuan Randall Goodwin
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Offline BB54

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Re: Ba Qua Chang
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2006, 12:54:03 PM »
One of the training methods I was exposed to as far as the palm changes was to do the circle stepping in a manner of eight steps whereby the first two would be the transition from one palm change, beginning with the single palm posture, and then blend into one palm change.  By the time you would get to the eighth step you would be blending into the second palm change.  In this method there would be eight sets of eight palm changes which would in total sixty-four palm changes.  If you count the other side that you would do a mirror image of the entire set, it would be one hundred twenty-eight palm changes. I get tired just thinking about it. 

Another workout is the same stepping with using eight postures that you would blend into. It would start with “Hands Float On Water” blend into “Hands Hold Up The Heavens” to “Singe Palm” to “Snake Darts Out Tongue” to “Push The Circle” to “Monkey Offers Fruit” to “Snake Hangs From Tree” to “Dragon Holds Up Moon” then reverse directions and start the sequence again. This is more of a Chi-Kung type exercise drill as it is pretty simplistic and basic.

Both methods are part of the “Mother Style” and unfortunately I am having a senior moment whereby I cannot remember the proper name in Chinese.
Brian Bruce Baxter. 8th Degree Black Belt Kajukenbo (Gaylord Method).  3rd Degree Black Belt Tracy's Kenpo Karate. 3rd Degree Black Belt Aikijitsu. 2nd Degree Black Belt Mu Duk Kwan.  22 years experience Yang Tai Chi Chuan.