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History in Protocol

Author Topic: History in Protocol  (Read 5910 times)

Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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History in Protocol
« on: June 11, 2013, 05:28:36 AM »
In English, "old school" or Emperado Method
in 1967

**Student is Student in any Language,,,,

Note: At that time of Kajukenbo History The Chinese Title of "Sibak" and much of the Chinese Titles was only used by the Chuan Fa Section of Kajukenbo.

**Sifu is Chinese for "Instuctor" is English

**Again the Title of "Sifu" was used  for  "Head Instructor" could be a 2nd thru 4th Degree

**Again the Title of "Sifu" was used  for  "Chief Instructor" was a Fifth Degree

**Then the Chinese Title changed to "Sigung" and was used for "Master Instructor"with      certification from KSDI at 6th with the title of Associate Professor, and definitely 7th thru 8th Degrees with the Title of Professor (Note" Assoc. Professor and Professor was considered Formal Titles")

**Again the Title of "Sigung" was used for a certified "Grand Master Instructor" who is a 9TH Degree and again for "Great Grand Masters" which is a 10th Degree

Note: In 1999, Not all 9th Degrees were GM's, in fact the title of GM was not coined until 1999, when a GM was deceased or volunteered to step down from the office, they were to be replaced from the 9th degrees that were not GM's yet.

Note: There was suppose to be ONLY 9 GM's in all of KAJUKENBO which was the original "9" appointed by SIJO in 1999

Note : GGM Aleju C Reyes was posthumously appointed his rank of 10th Deg by SIJO Emperado, But GGMReyes was a "SIGUNG", and the Co- Founders of "The Black Belt Society" was GGM's and Honorary 10th degrees but were also SIGUNGS.
 
Because......wait for it..... THERE IS ONLY ONE "SIJO"!!!!!!!Sijo Emperado was a 10th Degree  and a GGM,, but He was the recognized founder of his style of Kajukenbo and the Kajukenbo System

GMDechi as head of the KSDI INC. is a SGM, GMKAANANA as overseer to the B.O.A of the KSDI is a SGM, the only other SGM was GMHALBUNA (deceased)    "3" SGM that I know about and only "3",,,,,


with all due respect
GMReyes

Food for thought:::::As for our Mountain climbers, The Elders might be old but their mountains are a little bit bigger than most, so they are not over the hill yet,,,but with that thought, for some of our up and comers ,,,,aren't you glad that they paved the way,,,take that to heart, and make a righteous choice, so the same mistakes are not done,,, for it will be the Young and the Restless that will endeavor to make Kajukenbo Great.

Again ....
GMReyes
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline Tony49

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2013, 01:40:49 PM »
I see you say that Grand Master wasn't coined until 1999 I assume you mean in Kajukenbo only.  If that is true what was the highest title besides Sijo prior to 1999 was it just Professor?  Currently in our style we use Asst. Instructor, Instructor, Asst. Chief Instructor, Chief Instructor and Asst. Professor, Professor.  It is interesting to see the progression of changes through out the years.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 01:28:56 PM by Tony49 »
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt

Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2013, 03:27:36 PM »
I see you say that Grand Master wasn't coined until 1999 I awesome you mean in Kajukenbo only.  If that is true what was the highest title besides Sijo prior to 1999 was it just Professor?  Currently in our style we use Asst. Instructor, Instructor, Asst. Chief Instructor, Chief Instructor and Asst. Professor, Professor.  It is interesting to see the progression of changes through out the years.
That was certainly true for others and othe styles concerned, but in Kajukenbo at that time the Master rank was used extensively, and when Sijo wished for his "Elders" Insructors to be set apart, the Grandmaster Title was used as an honor that fit the criteria. As you have written " Asst. Instructor, Instructor, Asst. Chief Instructor, Chief Instructor and Asst. Professor, Professor. ".....In Kajukenbo "Asst. Instructor, Instructor, Asst. Chief Instructor, Chief Instructor" Some Instructors chose to use the Title formally,,,instead of a "belf rank" that it was intended',,,hence when saying "Master" or "Master Istructor" it is within the context,  that is important. "Master" could be a top Honor that a student is relating to his Instructor Formally. As such "Grandmaster" in context can be a formal title and a belt rank........which is correct.
with all due respect
GMReyes
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 05:06:16 AM by GM ALAN M.REYES »
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2013, 03:28:45 PM »
Personally, I think professor is a title that should remain associated with someone at university on tenure track.  Just like it would be ridiculous to use the title "Doctor" for someone in martial arts, or "colonel."
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
5th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Durham NC and Philadelphia PA
www.tkfmma.com

Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2013, 04:59:58 PM »
Personally, I think professor is a title that should remain associated with someone at university on tenure track.  Just like it would be ridiculous to use the title "Doctor" for someone in martial arts, or "colonel."
In my past, I've have known many Prof. within our Martial art world, But within Kaj I knew ONE when I was growing up,,,Prof. Adiano Emperado,,,and most of the "Chinese" Instructors that I was introduced to in this time period by him,,,was in english terms was called Prof.,,,,,,,,,,,with that I have carried on the tradition that Sijo set in stone as some Instructors were called Professor. So in Kaj. History it will stay that way,,,wether someone  wants to be called Professor or is a Professor,,,,If someone wants to start a different art or branch or method,, then so beit, then don't use it.   But in Sijo own words,,,quote "too many Prof. I'm Sijo" So I started calling him Sijo,,,I met him as "Chief" and grew to know him as "Professor Emperado" called him "Sijo" when it suited him and When I performed the "Dance of Death" at his wake........so within Kajukenbo history as I know it which should I not "respect" or continue on.
with all due respect
GMREYES
 
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline Tony49

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2013, 05:31:31 PM »
I met him as "Chief" and grew to know him as "Professor Emperado" called him "Sijo" when it suited him and When I performed the "Dance of Death" at his wake........so within Kajukenbo history as I know it which should I not "respect" or continue on.
with all due respect
GMREYES

I too grew up knowing my instructor as Chief, then Asst. Professor and now as Professor.  However, he also does Eskrima so in that art I knew him as Master then Grandmaster.  So I have always equated Grandmaster and Professor to be Equal.  Who knows what the future holds as more and more take up the arts and stay in them longer and longer. Does a student who starts when he is 10 and now is 75 deserve a higher rank then some one who started in their 20's and is also 75? Do you always stay one below your instructor until they pass on or retire completely?  All very interesting questions.
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt

Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2013, 06:35:27 PM »
boils down to how you view or taught to view your elders, a student will never be higher than their Instructor, If in the event a student was given the same rank as their Instructor, the term "senior" comes into play,  a given thought as a place of honor! "he is my senior" it's not said but it's definitly understood...
with all due respect
GMREYES
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline John Bishop

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2013, 06:41:50 PM »
From the research I have seen, the title "Professor" was used in many endeavors before it became common in academia.  It simply meant "someone who professed an expertise" in some field.  Strongmen, athletes, healers, etc. would use the title "Professor".   We know in martial arts it was used in judo and jujitsu long before Kajukenbo adopted it.
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2013, 08:21:24 PM »
I don't disagree with the history of the term that you mention.  However, professor has a different connotation now, and is an academic title in this era.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
5th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Durham NC and Philadelphia PA
www.tkfmma.com

Offline John Bishop

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2013, 11:39:19 PM »
Plain and simple we could get along just fine with 2 black belt titles.  "Sifu", if your a teaching black belt and "Sibak" if your a black belt who's not teaching. 
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

sgns1173

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2013, 12:55:20 AM »
Plain and simple we could get along just fine with 2 black belt titles.  "Sifu", if your a teaching black belt and "Sibak" if your a black belt who's not teaching.

I agree whole heartily!!!!

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2013, 01:11:58 PM »
Plain and simple we could get along just fine with 2 black belt titles.  "Sifu", if your a teaching black belt and "Sibak" if your a black belt who's not teaching.

That would be amazing.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
5th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Durham NC and Philadelphia PA
www.tkfmma.com

Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 04:12:26 PM »
Plain and simple we could get along just fine with 2 black belt titles.  "Sifu", if your a teaching black belt and "Sibak" if your a black belt who's not teaching.
I agree that Sifu would be a fine Title, When my younger students, My Junior Self Defense, and my Junior Karate, when growing up always called me Sifu, But my young Adults and Adults, refer to his by his Formal Title GM, not Sifu. The conversation may go like this:  When intros are being done, "This is my Sifu (Teacher, Instructor), Grandmaster (Formal Title)Gary Forbach",,,,,that would be a Formal Introduction,,,,But if John wants them to call him Sifu, there's not a problem with that,,,but somewhere down the line  the student will ask if Sifu Forbach is held in the same reverence as Sifu Bishop or who is higher in rank,,,the the Title thing or belt rank will come out in the conversation.
With all due respect
GMReyes

(Note: In the early days post 1967, the term "Sibak" was used as a Title only for a Student Black Belts or first year Black Belts and common place in the Chuan Fa Branch, Pre-1967 Hard/Soft style Kajukenbo "Chuan Fa" was the only branch that used that Title of Sibak, In Fact the spelling of "Kajukenpo or Kajukempo" was used when style was spoke of. Hard Style Kajukenbo mainly used english terms when recognizing an Instructor. It wasn't until Sijo recognized the differences between Sibak,Sifu,Sigung, then he allowed to use (whatever) to all Kaju stylists, to which whatever matched your style of Kaju.

Again
WADR
GMReyes
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)

Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 06:21:56 PM »
Sigung Trent Sera, (RIP), used the title "Sisuk" for a 1st year/Junior Instructor Black Belt.  Bare in mind that it was his policy that a student couldn't even test for Black Belt until he/she was 15 yrs old.  The physical requirements were just too tough for "kids". 
Upon earning 1st degree Black, and throughout 2nd degree Black, the title was Sibak, "Assistant Instructor".
Sifu Greg Hoyt
Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
Under Sigung Trent Sera, Professor Kailani Koa
Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline Tony49

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Re: History in Protocol
« Reply #14 on: June 14, 2013, 01:28:21 PM »
Very cool info,  Thanks for the sharing of knowledge.  I agree no matter what the rank. Your teacher will always be the senior.
Antonio Lucero

Diony/Cacoy Canete > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Doce Pares > Black Belt

Emperado > Tiwanak > Brown > Alfredo Bandalan Sr.
Bandalan Hawaiian Kenpo > Black Belt