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Multiple Attacker Scenario

Author Topic: Multiple Attacker Scenario  (Read 5661 times)

Offline Ron Baker

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Multiple Attacker Scenario
« on: December 28, 2012, 02:15:06 PM »
http://youtu.be/8hjSVTpKKxg

This might be worth serious discussion.

Obviously, the "victim's" first mistake was getting out of his car (a) facing off against who-knows-who, armed with who-knows-what, and (b) on the freeway. 

That said, it's worth breaking down what he did; didn't do; and should have done.

Thoughts?
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Offline Rev. Brian Henderson

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2012, 03:07:40 PM »
Well you mentioned the obvious error, the second was he assumed it was a fight (fair or otherwise) as opposed to combat (a fight for his life).  When the second attacker entered he appeared surprised and I believe in his mind, he was already defeated.

Never enter combat unless you are willing to do anything and everything to survive, including taking a life to save your own.
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2012, 03:51:55 PM »
Easy for me to say after the fact and ill-informed but obviously both cars were pulled over and both parties were emotionally charged, willing, ready and already engaged in a fight. It takes two to fight. The obvious without knowing all of the particulars is that you take yourself (1) out of the equation. Not good to engage whenever you have the option not to. From a civil and even legal point of view, if I am not taking measures to deesccalate the confrontation then I am in essence contributing to it and as a result am liable for the negative outcomes.

Don't fight. It is an apparent paradox or seeming contradiction that we train to fight or defend yet at the heart of it all we really should avoid it at all costs.

Beyond these esoteric and obvious observations I look at the actual fight footage and it is obvious that neither one of them were very well-trained. The introductioin of another threat in the form of another assailant only made matters worse for an already ill-trained fighter.

In these cases where we should have walked away and are otherwise engaged despite this fact, we must consider that the opponent(s) will do us grave harm if given the dominant position / opportunity. In these instances severe combative measures are needed. I am not concerned with knocking someone out at this point - I am going to attack there fighting structure and equalibrium- e.g. break bones, poke eyes, tear ears, etc...

Knowing how and a willingness to do these things should equip the really prepared martial artist with the presence of mind to avoid physical confrontations at all costs. Herein lies the paradox of what we do for the truly ill prepared, ill trained and uninitiated.

DON'T FIGHT UNLESS THERE IS NO OTHER OPTION AND EVEN THEN WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE PAIN AND DESTRUCTION WE DELIVER.

Patrick
« Last Edit: December 28, 2012, 03:57:29 PM by Patrick Campbell »
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Offline Danjo

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2012, 04:07:46 PM »
That purple shirt didn't help either.
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2012, 06:54:18 PM »
Quote
Don't fight. It is an apparent paradox or seeming contradiction that we train to fight or defend yet at the heart of it all we really should avoid it at all costs.

Definitely paradoxical.  But then, hopefully we are taught at one point or another that the first order of business when training in martial arts is to be able to survive.  Poor techniques can be corrected, but disregarding survival basics can be fatal.  This gentleman is lucky he didn't end up dead.

And to make matters worse, I read that he ended up being charged for his role in the fight.
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2012, 06:56:01 PM »
No doubt. Ultimately it is the lethal scenarios that we need to focus on in training and be prepared for in reality. And he is definitely at fault and luckily didn't severely injure himself or the other guy.

Patrick
« Last Edit: December 29, 2012, 06:57:49 PM by Patrick Campbell »
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Offline kfarny

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2012, 10:13:30 PM »
I think that faced with two people in front of me like that, I may have used my position between the cars to my advantage, backed up and tried to line up my attackers. That does not prevent them from coming around I suppose, but it may buy you time to deal with the first one.
That said, I don't see any reason to be out of your car on a public street, looking to fight. Bad move.
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Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2012, 06:51:58 PM »
Yeah, stupid move to get out of the car. 
OK, now let's look at this set up another way.  What if you are getting out of your car at the market/mall/gas station/whatever....and got jumped or jacked?  One guy, two guys? 
We did a class out in the parking lot a few months ago, and we will keep holding classes outside in different set-ups from time to time.  The last class was a parking lot scenerio.  Full contact, sparring gear, mma gloves, etc.
Good fun.  And we all learned alot. 
We all suggest to our students that awareness is the first line of defense, and this brought it home big time. 
Greg.
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #8 on: December 31, 2012, 05:39:38 PM »
Very true, Sifu Greg.  We're gonna work some scenarios this week. 
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
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Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #9 on: December 31, 2012, 06:27:18 PM »
Right on, Sifu Ron.  It's one thing to spar on the mat....another thing to take it to where the stuff happens.  Reality training. 
Sifu Greg Hoyt
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2013, 10:07:16 AM »
also amazing how people could video, but not help....No class.....
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Offline GM J. Willis

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #11 on: January 03, 2013, 03:34:08 PM »
True...a long with the economy so goes the morals and ethics of others  :-\.
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Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2013, 05:12:31 PM »
Yes sir, very sad to see healthy adults watching instead of helping. 
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 10:00:43 AM »
I think it's a nature of the times, that would never happen where I grew up....crazy....we did work multi attacker drills last night, 2 on 1, 3, 4, etc...and then sometimes I throw a helper for the person getting attacked (the good guy).  I was surprised how well my students did, since they were lower belt people...equal guys girls, kids also....they stacked they angled, more advanced kid class actually went offensive at the individuals in bursts which works great.....nice to see them doing it...

One extra thrown in to help even a 5 to one made a huge difference in the out come
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Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Multiple Attacker Scenario
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2013, 02:57:51 PM »
We don't know all the facts from the video only the end result.
Maybe this guy deserved what he got.
The way he approached the fight was more of a person who thought he could fight and not that of one who knew he was in a bad situation.
Multiple attacker scenarios are the reason we do the bull ring or as Sijo liked to call it the Emperado circle.
In this type of situation you must be violent not just willing to fight; my son has been in the same situation as shown on the video twice in the last couple of years.
one time two guys attacked him at an intersection and it ended with one attacker knocked out and the other with a broken leg and 4 broken fingers, another time he had two guys attack him as he got out of his truck at the super market and that ended with one attacker knocked out and the other with his head split open.
If you are getting jumped you better use violent techniques if you want to survive.
My son lives in a very bad part of town and has a very nice truck so we believe both times were attempted car jacking's.
It's a good thing they didn't pull out guns because my son is a gun fanatic and owns about 20 or more guns, he carries one all the time and like some of you here he shoots all the time, it's called practice and is very good with a gun and gun scenarios.
So my advice here is, don't put yourself in this type of situation unless you're going to break people.
(the street is not the place for point fighting)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 03:11:44 PM by Ghost Rider »
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