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Angry Kaju Parent

Author Topic: Angry Kaju Parent  (Read 9088 times)

Offline Ron Baker

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Angry Kaju Parent
« on: November 29, 2012, 02:52:43 PM »
I don't post much anymore, but this (see below) popped up in a news feed.  It's a complaint posted by an angry parent on a "consumer complaint" website.  It's a Kaju school, but out of respect, I am not printing the name of the school owner nor the name of the parent.  That said, there are issues here that parents, school owners, instructors and assistant instructors could learn from. 

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martial arts discipline turned into disrespect
**************’s Kajukenbo Complaint
by *********

Monday night at my 6 years old son's martial art's class my son was asked to *** his fighting gear as he was done sparring for a good 10 min fight. As my son was taking off the gear he asked me for some water because he was thirsty so of course I gave him some, apparently it was an issue with his teacher because he just looked at my son and started counting in 5s as my son was drinking. My son stopped and said "what?" And his teacher said "did you ask if you can drink water?" And obviously my son said "yes" and then his teacher responded with "who did you ask?" And I jumped in their conversation and said "he asked me" and teacher then rolled his eyes looked up at me and said "excused me are you a black belt?" As rude as that was it ticked me off and I responded with "I'm his mama and what?" And he said "well you can watch him do 50 push ups" I rolled my eyes at him and did one of those "psst please." Then he said "did you bring enough water for everyone else because he's the only one drinking" of course I was already beyond upset because if he needed water for everyone else he could of made more of an effort to fill up his empty water cooler that he had in the back of the class so that everyone can have water after their work out. Business owners really do need to watch how they speak to those (parents & students) that are paying them monthly fees to help keep their businesses opened because at the end of the day these businesses wouldn't even exist.

« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:58:16 PM by Ron Baker »
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2012, 05:42:23 PM »
I can't say that I disagree with what the instructor was trying to say.
When you are on the mat you listen to the teacher, the parents should let the instructor run his class.
If the parents try to get involved in the structure of the class maybe they should start their own school.
With youth you must retain their focus.
My students ask me for permission for anything that requires them to leave the mat.
But on the other hand there should be a tactical and polite way to convey that message to the parents.
Greg Harper
senior instructor, Gumataotao Kajukenbo
Head instructor, Kajupit MMA
Sijo Emperado's personal body guard

sgns1173

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2012, 05:45:59 PM »
I can't say that I disagree with what the instructor was trying to say.
When you are on the mat you listen to the teacher, the parents should let the instructor run his class.
If the parents try to get involved in the structure of the class maybe they should start their own school.
With youth you must retain their focus.
My students ask me for permission for anything that requires them to leave the mat.
But on the other hand there should be a tactical and polite way to convey that message to the parents.

I agree, the instructor runs the class and his student(s) should have known the rules. 

Offline John Bishop

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 06:07:33 PM »
Regretfully, some parents treat martial arts classes like Little League.  But instead of yelling at coaches and ref's, and interfering with games and practices, they coach from their chairs, go onto the mat, make loud comments during class, demand promotions for their kids, want explanations why other kids were promoted, etc., etc.
It looks like the instructor in question didn't handle it the best way possible.  And could save himself future problems by making sure all parents know what is and is not allowed during class.   
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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Offline grand master hemenes

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 06:11:51 PM »
yes the instructor was right maybe he should not be rude about it just explan to the parent so they understand the way it works on the matt.....


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Offline envisiontj

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 06:52:53 PM »
This is why I like running a small "garage" school.  I am NOT their employee.  With or without that student, my "business" will continue.  Parents, and many adult students alike, today have taken on a view that we "work" for them.  If a student wants to train with me, I first talk with them and decide whether or not to take them on.  Once I do, rules are all laid out clearly.  Anything missed will be tactfully discussed as it arises.  The parents that do watch my kid classes all know that they are there to watch and that is it.  There is to be no involvement from them whatsoever.  If they don't like it, they can take their child to a different school.  In the past, I have told some parents to either stay away during class time or remove their child from my classes completely.  The worst was when I had a mother of a 13 year old.  She was a Blue Belt under another instructor, though no longer training at the time.  She felt this qualified her to speak to her son during class and make corrections.  I made my rules in regards to this behavior very well known and told her if she could teach him better to do so.  She was quiet from there on.

The instructor in this situation probably could've/should've handled it a bit more tactfully, but in my vote he was completely in the right.
Sifu Trent Junker
Realm Of The Tiger Kajukenbo - Portland, OR
Under GM Gerry Scott

Offline mastertwright

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 06:55:43 PM »
There are always two sides of the story. Speaking from experience parents need to let the instructor run their classes with no interference.
TIM WRIGHT
5TH DEGREE BLACK BELT KAJUKENBO GAYLORDS METHOD

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 07:27:06 PM »
Definitely a less agressive communication approach in exchange of a more assertive communication approach is something that would serve the instructor well in the future. This is an art in and of itself but necessary when dealing with others - especially concerned or over-concerned parents.

"I appreciate you giving him permission ma'am and I know you are concerned about your son's well-being as am I but for safety reasons we have a policy of asking the teacher before taking a drink or other actions while in class. It isn't fair or safe to the group if a student takes it upon himself to violate our policies. I apologize for any inconvenience. Go ahead little Johnny you earned your drink after that awesome sparring session just make sure you ask me next time first."  ;)

Just an example.

Patrick
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Offline Allen73

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 08:25:31 PM »
I did a search and found out who the instructor in question is. Knowing who his instructor is and where he grew up in Kaj at explains alot. Hardcore school Hardcore instructor. When I was instructing a few years ago I faced the same problem.The parents some how thought that we were running a day care,they would drop they're kids off 20 sometimes 30 minutes before class.So we decided that we would open the school 10 minutes before the first class was scheduled to start. This made many parents upset. I had one mom tell me and the head instructor that because of the new opening time she would now be late for her yoga classes.She was very mad at the fact  that we had messed up her schedule. Now we could have been as nasty as she was but what purpose would it have served? We let her vent and when she was done we explained the updated rules about drop off times.After everything was said and done all was ok. I agree that the way the instructor handled it was wrong but it is his class and his school.But still you need to be able to talk to people in a professional manner at any time.
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Offline Rev. Brian Henderson

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 10:44:37 PM »
Well, that could have been my class.  That very thing happened to one of my instructors about a year and a half ago.  The parent became angry and asked to talk to me.  I let her vent, and then I reminded her of the schools rules and backed my instructor.  The result was that she quit, and pulled both of her children out of my school.

I did have a talk with my instructor about being a bit more tactful, and he understood.  Probably wasn't me, but you know the saying, "If the shoe fits..."
Rev. (Prof.) Brian T. Henderson (KSDI# 641)
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 12:30:32 AM »
Maybe we should get his (the instructor) side of the story also.  I'll send him this link and see if he wants to comment.  There's usually 2 sides to every story.
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
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Offline Israel Gonzales

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 08:47:37 AM »
Maybe we should get his (the instructor) side of the story also.  I'll send him this link and see if he wants to comment.  There's usually 2 sides to every story.

So true... what was written is the parents prospective of what happened which could be dramatized to gain sympathy.
Sifu Israel Gonzales
Kajukembo Self-Defense Systems
Fort Worth, Texas.
(Sijo Emperado - GM Aleju Reyes - GM Richard Peralta - Israel Gonzales)
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Offline Ron Baker

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 10:12:01 AM »
The main reason I posted this in the Business Practices section wasn't to judge the instructor, but to share what's going on in business as it relates to Kaju.  So I don't know if it's necessary to "get the other side of it". 

Personally, I think the parent overstepped her bounds and disrespected the class.  Professionally, the instructor had to react to something that was improper.  And he reacted in his own way, in his own dojo.  He doesn't owe anyone an explanation.

That said, this raises an opportunity to evaluate martial arts business practices.  We have more martial arts "customers" than we do students.  Martial arts "customers" feel that the tuition they pay, earns them the right to treat their training like a gym membership or an afternoon activity.  Most of us instructors and students see it differently.  And that's where smart business practices come in to play.

Let's not blame the instructor for a problem that he did not create.
Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2012, 12:15:03 PM »
I suppose another idea is that at the onset of signing a contract for the child's enrollment that the parent be "read on" to the class policies, which might cover such things as drinking water, there are no child black belts, promotions are earned not given, etc.... have the parent sign a "conduct contract" or whatever you want to call it in order to hedge yourself. And of course it wouldn't hurt to take a class on communication or research the matter (unless the instructor is already a good communicator)and look for ways to become more assertive without being agressive or passive.

Just some thoughts that relate to the initial comment by Sifu Ron.

 :)

Patrick
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Offline kajufistsonny

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Re: Angry Kaju Parent
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2012, 05:38:49 PM »
Hello Ohana, Much Love and Respect. I am  going to  respond out of honor for our founders  and Love for the  system that has saved and supported my Family. First the are rules at my dojo. ( Unwritten but verbally given and evenly enforced  not matter adult , child or my 7 year old who is also one of my students. Briefly  some dojo  rules: ask to leave the mate ( restroom) , Ask to get water , don't leave or exit dojo without parent (kids). Keep you hands and feet to yourself. N shoe s
'
There maybe a little exaggeration ( 10 min fight) but briefly  their family came to dojo with discipline problems with their child . He was fighting classmates both guys and girls, not doing his homework and  not listening to his mom when his father was away. I  helped and fixed the situations.  He has become more respectful and happy  lil Ninja student. Both father and mother agree. This did not happen over night. I will say now  he is one of the top lil ninja students .

I am sure that I am not the most tactful but I am respectfully of everyone that enters my school. Parent , student and guest.  I personally  don't think an " I am Sorry" is called for, but I am always willing to communicate and grow as a person and instructor.

Fact: The child was on the mat drinking water and checked why. I am not changing my rules. The family knew the rules ( it was not the first day ,first week or first month) Also the parent was at class with her son the very next days following  the water incident. Additionally I will add I have never denied bathroom breaks  or water or help  from anyone that asked.  She also told her son to kick me in the fish (groin)  as they were leaving  on the day of the incident. Perhaps that family has out grown my school.

Mahola   

Sifu Sonny Beasley
Emperado Method
Sifu G. Sonny Beasley  3rd Degree
Emperado  Method
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Senior GM Carlos Bunda
Instructor  GM Rick Kingi