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Depth of Squat

Author Topic: Depth of Squat  (Read 13086 times)

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 12:19:44 AM »
I have never heard falling step in boxing...step and slide...same thing?...though I have seen many take a step then fall...

I've trained only a little in boxing, but I've been told to punch higher than my head because my forward step reduces height.  But Dempsey's insistence of eliminating the preliminary step is to reduce telwgraphing at the expense of recruiting power from the stretch reflex.  As Prof Bono states, I believe Dempsey is merely using older language to describe the step-n-slide since there is really no extended sliding, only lifting the foot and, well, letting the body fall into the step with a launch from the rear foot.
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2012, 01:36:39 AM »
My coach used to have us punch a heavy bag very high up and told us the most important thing about the height was when your arms and shoulders got tired you were still hitting the guy in the face....makes sense to me...
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Offline Wado

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2012, 02:32:29 AM »
I have never heard falling step in boxing...step and slide...same thing?...though I have seen many take a step then fall...

I've trained only a little in boxing, but I've been told to punch higher than my head because my forward step reduces height.  But Dempsey's insistence of eliminating the preliminary step is to reduce telwgraphing at the expense of recruiting power from the stretch reflex.  As Prof Bono states, I believe Dempsey is merely using older language to describe the step-n-slide since there is really no extended sliding, only lifting the foot and, well, letting the body fall into the step with a launch from the rear foot.

That's one of the nice things about footwork, you can call something by different names, but it still comes down to the same movement principles.

The step-n-slide is also the same as a shuffle step (correct?). Well the shuffle step is for movement. The falling step, however, is a punching step (e.g. a step used when attacking). An easy way to compare the two is to say that your last shuffle step takes you into range for punching, and then your next step is the punching step (such as the falling step) used to deliver the punch with power and without telegraphing the punch.

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Offline Wado

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2012, 01:12:42 PM »
I have never heard falling step in boxing...step and slide...same thing?...though I have seen many take a step then fall...

I've trained only a little in boxing, but I've been told to punch higher than my head because my forward step reduces height.  But Dempsey's insistence of eliminating the preliminary step is to reduce telwgraphing at the expense of recruiting power from the stretch reflex.  As Prof Bono states, I believe Dempsey is merely using older language to describe the step-n-slide since there is really no extended sliding, only lifting the foot and, well, letting the body fall into the step with a launch from the rear foot.

Heya Gints, you are right that a lot of the use of level change and head movement has to do with not telegraphing and/or confusing the enemy. The actual power component is just basically aligning the body and getting as much of your body force going in the direction through the target.

A question, after your forward step, are you punching from the hip, such as done with a "shovel hook" or a "rising punch"?

This type of striking is more complex than the "falling step" alone. There are various ways to generate the power, IME, in boxing and one is using the "falling step" and another is using the "shoulder whirl" (power from hip and shoulder rotation). However, there can be a little falling step to add power when primarily using the shoulder whirl for power. And, conversely, when primarily using the falling step for power, you can add some shoulder whirl for added power.

In addition, the alignment of the body and pivot points used also help determine how much force goes through the target opposed to back into you or in the opposite direction.

I really like this video with GGM Gaylord to demonstrate some of the footwork:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ia-HuNTUS0

One thing I like about the strikes is that GGM is great at showing his body moving in the direction of the strike. When at 12 seconds the first back fist shows the footwork of a "falling step" with a lead left. Then it is followed by a second back fist with a bigger movement and more power. In both steps, he first shifts his weight back so the strike is more telegraphed; however, at the point where the foot strikes the ground and he actually strikes, the force is moving all forward into the target (this is the concept of the falling step to convert downward force into forward force). Later in the video, when he strikes down, the force of his body is moving down, when he strikes up, the force of his body is moving up.

The basic falling step is for a straight punch that is parallel to the ground. If the strike is going to be down or up, then the force of body would move down or up respectively. Hope I'm making sense.
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Offline Wado

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2012, 03:38:46 PM »
Another video for you Gints. Maybe you have seen this one before. Hope you like it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRqfYwhsQdQ

In the video there is a good demonstration of use of various ways to generate power, IMHO. Using proper pivot points and it includes your stretch reflex for power (e.g. moving in opposite direction before striking). However, in the video there are at least three ways the stretch reflex is shown: (1) the basic fundamental with hands hanging on side and relaxed so that the arms/shoulder move with the hip. (2) With a strike using the opposite hand as part of the stretch so that the left hand slaps as the right hip moves back. (3) and as the way it is taught with less telegraphing so that the upper body does not move back when the hip moves back.

The first way (beginning of video) is how the power is first learned with hands down and just body relaxed. The second way (2:00 slap with left hand) is how it could be done with the use of combination striking (e.g. no wasted movement). The third way (2:59 touching the pad) is basically how forms can be done, minimizing telegraphing by minimizing upper body cues that you are attacking.

This is power from hip and shoulder rotation so it is not demonstrating the falling step unless you are looking for it. The conversion of downward force (weight forward) into forward force is probably most easily seen at 3:45 with the shoulder hit triggered off of the foot hitting the ground.  

-------------

None of these power generating technique require a wide base (horse stance). IMHO, striking with the upper body does not require a wide base for power. This goes back to discussions on what is the purpose of a wide base. We may be having to look more at grappling, ground attack, and striking with the lower body (such as tripping and hip checking) to find more meaning on the use of a wide base. IMHO.

« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 03:41:25 PM by Wado »
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2012, 02:04:47 AM »
Thank you, Sifu Yamaguchi.

Bit I think that all of us have much to learn from the Systema masters.  There is no need for step, slide or falling punch when  you have acheived the mastery seen at 2:04 .  Why train when drinking Vodka is just as good?  But I'll warn you, techniques always work better in foreign countries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfJoOsldEg&feature=related
« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 02:07:19 AM by Gints Klimanis »
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Offline Wado

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2012, 12:55:55 PM »
Thank you, Sifu Yamaguchi.

Bit I think that all of us have much to learn from the Systema masters.  There is no need for step, slide or falling punch when  you have acheived the mastery seen at 2:04 .  Why train when drinking Vodka is just as good?  But I'll warn you, techniques always work better in foreign countries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkfJoOsldEg&feature=related


I wasn't trying to be sarcastic. Peter Consterdine knows what he is talking about when it comes to power generation with striking.

http://www.theshotokanway.com/peterconsterdineinterview.html

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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2012, 01:55:22 PM »
It was a good opportunity to bring up those entertaining Systema videos on remarkable feats.  My primary regret is that they do not use German Techno music in their videos.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Depth of Squat
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2012, 05:06:50 PM »
Gints I always dug that video....Mikhail Ryabko just looks like he is having the best time
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:15:34 PM by KajuJKDFighter »
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision