Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/kajukenb/public_html/cafe/Sources/Load.php(183) : runtime-created function on line 3
Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours

Author Topic: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours  (Read 8362 times)

juribe

  • Guest
Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« on: November 03, 2011, 01:40:29 PM »
I received a plea for help today from an acquaintance who knows that I train in Kajukenbo. An excerpt from her email:

--- begin excerpt ---

I need your advice/thoughts/opinion on something, being trained in self defense and all.  The night before I left home in July, "John" (name changed by me, Jackie) tried strangling me.  Honestly, I think I?m here today because he chose to let me go (physically).  I fought so hard, but he had a grip on my throat I just couldn?t get out of.  I remember learning that if someone goes for your throat you shouldn?t try to pull their hands off as you would instinctively, but to poke their eyes or punch or kick.  Well, I panicked and went for his hands.  But I did kick as well.  I even grabbed him (or tried to) down there.  I kinda maneuvered my way out it a couple times, but like I said, I think ultimately it was his choice to let me go.  Okay, so he?s in custody now for violating the restraining order I have on him by texting me.  He?s been in since August, but he?s getting out in January.  I?m getting kinda nervous now.  A couple people have suggested I arm myself, but I?m afraid he?ll turn it against me, and then I?m really screwed.  

--- end excerpt ---

This is scary. I've read enough about domestic violence to know that the most likely person to kill a woman is her husband or boyfriend. My first two general thoughts are:

1. Ideally, she does not even want to be in a situation where she has to physically defend herself. Depending on this guy, his violence could escalate with his use of weapons or by him trying to abduct her. In other words, I am in support of a woman being able to physically defend herself, but it should not be her only resort.

2. If she wants to physically defend herself, then I think the only way is regular training. I'm not nearly as experienced as most people on this forum, but I have a hard time feeling comforted by someone taking a 1- or 2-day self defense seminar. Based on recent things I've read, it seems that you must train regularly and you must train under duress (that is, in situations where your body's physiological reactions are similar to what they would be in real life when your life is in danger) in order to be effective in a real attack. Even tournament martial artists and MMA fighters speak about "tunnel vision" and auditory impairment that happens during their first fight or two. Based on what I've heard, these effects tend to subside with experience. I think this is why the bullring (and full-contact sparring) is a good thing in the right doses. No matter what, when I have to do the bullring, I get nervous. Even if I have a low-key sparring session with someone I know, My adrenaline starts going, I get sweaty, heart rate goes up. It's one way to emulate the impact of a real-life attack.

She notes that she has a restraining order but some experts on violence (notably Gavin de Becker) believe that this can actually escalate the violence.

I don't know enough about weapons (I assume she means a gun here) to advise on whether it's a good thing or bad thing to use one in this situation.

To her credit, she has left the relationship, however that does not ensure her safety. According to de Becker, 77% of spousal murders happen after the woman leaves.

If your friend asked you for advice, what would you say?




Offline Jason Goldsmith

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 764
    • Tactical Kung Fu and MMA
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2011, 02:06:47 PM »
Regular training is definitely a must; you can also help train out the tunnel vision, but when working with someone is already a victim, that type of training can be more traumatic than helpful. 

Also, she has a good point about arming herself.  Once she has training, that can change, but in the beginning she is right that it is more likely to be used against her. 
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
5th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Durham NC and Philadelphia PA
www.tkfmma.com

Offline Greg Hoyt

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2011, 02:07:00 PM »
Aloha Sifu Jackie,
Yes, I would advise regular training, for all the reasons you mentioned.  I have found that most Women and Teenage Girls either don't believe they need the training, and/or are too timid to train.  What usually happens is that the "group" of people who most need regular training won't train.  We can only open the door, the student must walk through it alone.  
Your friend can "arm" herself, but she MUST get firearm training, and then some combat firearm training.  Otherwise her fears can come true.  
There are no easy answers.  Kajukenbo Training is tough, but too often we realize it is worth it.  
Sifu Greg
Sifu Greg Hoyt
Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
Under Sigung Trent Sera, Professor Kailani Koa
Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline KBOWARRIOR

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Train strong to remain strong/keep the flame alive
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2011, 05:59:30 PM »
The only was she will ever be able to handle this situation physically is regular training and training that is more self defense based. MMA is great and will train her to be used to the contact, but she needs techniques that cripple and kill.  MMA isn't going to do this. Get the self defense then maybe supplement with MMA. As for firearms training, most situations involving spousal abuse happen in the home. I would hope she has moved oe forced him to move. I hope the incident you described was documented. You want this recorded so if he does go after her she can escalate as she is fearful for her life. As that being said, a weapon at home is not a bad idea. Problem is will she use it. Most of the time the weapon is taken away, the person had a chance to shoot, but froze because they didn't want to hurt the other person. That is what she needs to come to terms with. If he is breaking into her house and she is armed, she isn't going to need a lot of training to point and shoot. Just her willingness.
Sifu Mark Wallace
Harper Kajukenbo
Visalia, California
Emperado Revised System

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2011, 06:13:37 PM »
Mark we have Crimson Trace grips on our home defense ....tools lets say....easy point and squeeze
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Greg Hoyt

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 06:31:44 PM »
I agree with Sifu Mark,  MMA training won't be as useful as regular Kaju training. 
We offer a Free Woman's Self Defense Seminar once a month.  We do this for several reasons.  Obviously, we want to enroll new students in regular classes.  But at least as important is the service to the community.  Yes, an hour or two of training isn't going to change Mrs. Housewife into Kathy Long.  But one seminar can lead to more free seminars, which can lead to regular training.  Most women can experience striking and contact in a controlled enviroment without freaking out.  Some, though, have been through stuff that will take time to overcome, if ever.  I've had one lady break down in tears when the heat got turned up a little. 
We try to get them it come, but again, we can only open the door.  Laters.
Greg
Sifu Greg Hoyt
Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
Under Sigung Trent Sera, Professor Kailani Koa
Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline KBOWARRIOR

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Train strong to remain strong/keep the flame alive
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 06:34:39 PM »
Moss 500 18 inch barrel with tac light. #8 birdshot. Anything 25 feet and closer is not going to be happy, but won't go thru walls and kill your kids. Like the trace grips also. Have one on one of my entry Glocks used when on SWAT.  Close range must faster. I would smoke my other shooter on my team on close in tac work using it and one I had mounted on my M4.
Sifu Mark Wallace
Harper Kajukenbo
Visalia, California
Emperado Revised System

Offline Ron Baker

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 637
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 06:55:21 PM »
Quote
1. Ideally, she does not even want to be in a situation where she has to physically defend herself.

Just taught a women's self-defense class this evening.  And one thing that was apparent, was that most women prefer to keep as much distance as possible between them and danger.  Completely understandable.  But because so many of Kajukenbo's most effective techniques are close-range, it's counter-intuitive for people to go toward the attacker rather than keeping a "safer" punching or kicking distance.

But the only way to build that kind of "close-range" confidence is through regular training (technique as well as situational).

Sigung (Shihan) Ron Baker
Kajukenbo 5280 MMA Foundation
Under GM Jason Groff
Ordonez Kajukenbo Ohana

Offline KajuJKDFighter

  • Senior Moderator
  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 3442
  • "Accept the things to which fate binds you"
    • Bono's Jeet Kune Do and Kajukenbo
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 07:18:29 PM »
I feel ya Mark have a 590 tactical Ghost sights, 20" SpecOp recoil stock....9 rounds....you can shoot it pistol style one handed the recoil is so low....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

juribe

  • Guest
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 11:14:01 PM »
Thanks for all the replies.

She has left the home since this attack, but apparently he has started texting her again, which is in violation of the restraining order. The general consensus seems to be regular training and some type of legal tools or weapons (with knowledge of how to use) would help the most, and even short seminars can only be helpful. I just wouldn't want her to get a false sense of security from a couple days of training, that's all.  As you can probably tell, I'm pretty concerned that I give her solid advice. To me, it sounds like a potentially life threatening situation, and I know she has two kids, which means more potential for harm.

I feel I should add that I did not mean to imply that MMA training would help in this situation. By "regular training," I meant self defense-oriented training, not MMA. I should have been more clear on that point. I only mentioned an MMA fight as an example of how a person might not be physiologically prepared to respond when the body is in a "fight or flight" mode until they have experience dealing with it. My primary training is in Kaju, although yes, I have participated in some MMA matches.

Domestic violence has characteristics that differ this type of violence from rape, whether by stranger or known person. If you have not read "The Gift of Fear," I highly recommend it.

Again, thanks. It's great knowing the kaju community is supportive and responsive.


Offline KBOWARRIOR

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 228
  • Train strong to remain strong/keep the flame alive
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 11:52:37 PM »
Jackie she needs to keep police notified everytime he violates the order. Should be a domestic restraining order which means that police can arrest the husband outright even though misdemeanor charge. Also I believe that the subject will not be eligible for cite out from jail. That is the biggest thing is she worked for the order, she needs to use it for her protection.
Sifu Mark Wallace
Harper Kajukenbo
Visalia, California
Emperado Revised System

Offline Wado

  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 529
  • llama llama
Re: Domestic violence - my thoughts and yours
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 10:32:21 AM »
Martial arts and self protection can be a world apart. People in fear often need a quick fix, something that gets them through a situation, something that helps them immediately. Martial arts is a long term approach and much of it doesn't help someone immediately.

Getting a weapon is a quick fix and can immediately empower someone to overcome fear and allow them to function. Of course a weapon is only really good if it is in hand and the person is willing to use it as necessary. Another quick fix is addressing or re-enacting the situation where the person was assaulted by that loser. Address the grab around the throat as it was done and drill that against someone in a padded suit. Give the person the tools and experience to find their own answers to questions they might have.

Mental state is something that can change through experiences. Sometimes it is needed to work on accepting and awareness. A person who is traumatized the worst is often those that never thought it could happen to them and feel they were helpless when it did. Accepting that ANYONE can be ambushed, sucker punched, caught off guard, put in a situation where they have very limited options... accept there may be nothing that you can do... however, it is still your choice on the attitude you have about it. You can take it as a learning experience and try to move on, or you can choose to live in the past and hide under some rock for the rest of your life (for example, not saying this is applicable in this particular person's situation). Once accepting that something can happen, then awareness can be worked on to stack the odds in your favor that something won't happen or if it does, you will be better prepared to come out on top. Pay attention to habits that you have. A person that wants to harm you may not care about their own life in a domestic situation. There was a case here a few years ago where an ex-husband ambushed his ex-wife in the parking lot of her work, shot her and then shot himself afterwards. Both died. When it comes down to something like this, it is just sad and sucks, IMHO. Now they have cameras and emergency stations (with a big button that calls police/emergency) all over the parking lots... could such things have prevented something like what happened, who knows for sure, but everything possible to stack the odds in your favor of coming out of something is better than nothing.

I wrote something on a different forum before that might help. I've included it below. Good luck, take care.

Quote
By the seat of your pants to Martial Arts


Martial arts training can be a life time endevour. It certainly is for those in for the long haul. Like a long distance runner, there is routine and pace. Like a perfectionist, nothing is good enough, always the mind of a student, even with the experience of an old timer. You will get there, just twenty, thirty, fifty years... just keep training.

Along the way there come obstacles to overcome and goals to exceed. This is martial arts on speed. Goal-based like preparing for the next rank test or your next cage fight, or your next Black Ops mission. Like a middle distance runner, there are short sprints and long runs... it will make you or break you. The real work horse of martial arts. You got six months to get there, losing is not an option.

What is self-defense training? Self-defense is a zero to 100% in an instant. It is a gosh darn sprint for you life. It is martial arts by the seat of your pants. Not for tomorrow, for the here and now. It isn't what will you do at your next tournament or sparring session, it is how am I going to get from my work across that dark parking lot to my car right now! It isn't what will work tomorrow, it is what works for you today.

A woman I knew was afraid and asked the police what she could do. The police told her to get a weapon, a knife, a gun, something that she could have around that she could use to protect herself. This is the reality of self-defense for her, not some training that will help her in six months or six years, something that will help her in an instant.

Do people realize how much of self-defense training is simply by the seat of your pants? Sure there is learning the law, analyzing crime reports and trends, hand-to-hand training, weapons training, research, etc., but there is a lot of what can I do right now. The folks I trained with wanted to know years ago how good batons were for protecting yourself, so they read the reports, did the research, then they padded up and started swinging at each other. They found out some things, such as if you held the baton in your right hand but had a left lead, your left side of your body would get pummelled. So they decided it was easier to protect yourself if you went weapon side first, like a fencer.  When they wanted to know how good a car door was to stop bulletins, well they did the research, tempered glass probably could deflect bullets and the spaced armor of the door might offer good protection... then they got an old junker car, that didn't run and the gas tank was empty, and we shot it up. Old compact car from the 1980s, and it didn't stop anything from a straight on shot, in fact a .357 went through one door, through the seat and out the other door, clean through the car.

Back to the woman that the police told to get a weapon to protect herself. With the weapon she could cope with the fear... she could function and not live in fear. It was like night and day to her, the change. But she could not just live like this, a sprint all the time. Well the weapon was only really good if it was in hand, so of course she should be trained with it. This was like the middle distance run, short sprints and long training.

After a time, it became apparent that the weapon, however good with it, is a mental crutch. Without the weapon, one can feel naked and even more insecure than before. Afraid of not having it, afraid of someone taking it away... Then comes the realization that, if you aren't enough without the weapon, you will never be enough with it.

Now you are hooked, you are a martial artist. In for the long haul, and then twenty years or more passes and it is all cool. From by the seat of your pants to martial arts.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 10:34:56 AM by Wado »
W. Yamauchi
Mateo Kajukenbo
Seattle, Washington