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WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?

Author Topic: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?  (Read 11611 times)

Offline dom28

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WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« on: January 27, 2011, 05:50:19 AM »
It seems today that most students don't want to sweat  blood anymore.they just want to show up once or twice a week have a light workout more akin to a CARDIO KICKBOXING class then a KENPO/KAJUKENBO one.and then they are left wondering wye they can't fight.I do not teach this way I like training hard! as a result I have a smallish club thats fine.I think a lot of those  adverts in ma mags that say they can make you unbetible after reading a book or waching a DVD  do not help.in the past people knew that in order to be hard you had to train hard.But these days most of the time when they first bleed they scream and run off the mat,I have one student a bit like this but he keeps coming back so I have hope for him.Sorry I had to get that off my chest rant over.Anyway do you think we will see a return to the days when the clubs were full of people willing to take a bashing and give one back or is the MCDOJO going to continue to fool people in to thinking that they do a MARTIAL ART?
« Last Edit: January 27, 2011, 11:18:25 AM by dom28 »
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2011, 10:02:35 AM »
Dominic...please tone down the caps for us....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline dom28

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2011, 10:54:59 AM »
sorry about that i will change that now
DOMINIC DILLON INSTRUCTOR AT THE NORWICH KENPO SELF-DEFENCE CLUB

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2011, 11:03:22 AM »
Cool I figured you just didn't realize it...it's hard to read all caps...thanks
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2011, 09:14:08 PM »
Kids these days ...

While it's easy to pick on the values of the younger generation, it's important to realize that martial arts have expanded immensely since the movie "Karate Kid."  This training serves a largely decorative purpose as nearly zero of the students will ever used the skills, let alone use them regularly, in their day-to-day lives.  As a typical American man about martial arts, he'll show his respect by saying "Yeah, I could use the flexibility training."  Ask a typical American woman, and she'll show her disdain by saying that that she is kick-asp from her cardio air-boxing training class at the gym.  Right there, that tells you the core of the regimen.

As we all see, the pro fighter and "bang-em up" amateur clubs are small because the training is intense, painful and thus, typically short-lived.  There is a stream of tough, young kids filling up amateur Smokers and even professional events that didn't exist before twenty years ago, such as the UFC.

Honestly, I'll admit to being in the 1-2x per week in recent days at age 40 due to new family obligations, but I did class 3x/week for about 15 years, excluding other fitness training.

As for crazy marketing material, the same ads and books existed in the late 70's, and you older-timers can tell me what was available before then.  I do remember the promises of Charles Atlas as followed by my father in his youth.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
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Offline dom28

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2011, 06:43:28 AM »
I don't have a problem with clubs training softer as long as they know they are doing that.i have problem when the instructor is showing them a technique on a complient partner telling them this is what you do in a fight.as for older guys training one of my hardest students is in his 40s i do not mean by this that you are not hard a a third dan and training under prof BONO and trained with a dog brother IS hard
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 07:03:48 AM by dom28 »
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Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2011, 03:12:47 PM »
Teacher Dillon,

I should edit my profile to reflect that I only trained with Prof. Bono for almost two years (2005-2007) and received my rank from my Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo club.  I'll confess to signing up for the twice-a-weeker then degrading to a once-a-weeker, but that is because other nights were occupied by training at other martial arts clubs. I've witnessed a couple of his black belt tests, and they are near-death experiences.

One thing I learned about selecting students from Bono's club is to immerse them in the training in the first class, including grappling rounds.  I used to believe that the fundamental criterion for a student was one that walked in the door, saw and felt the training and came back.  In my area, there are a lot of men that were raised in sheltered academic environments and are thirsting for contact training but have bodies undeveloped due to a lifetime of sitting in a chair.  I thought it was a bit extreme to grapple on the very first night, but in retrospect, I think this is an efficient selection process.  If a student is out-grappled or out-sparred by a girl and doesn't return, they really don't think they have anything to learn and almost definitely have zero potential to be a future student beyond 30 days.  I'll admit that most nights of my first month were spent soaking in the bathtub with Vicodin (always better with beer) at night to find relief from the physical hardship.

I'm with you on your point about misleading students, but really, most instructors believe they are preparing their students properly.  Just ask a Zumba instructor after the last ten minutes of their class has been spent doing cardio boxing, even though they will call training that does not strike a target of any kind boxing.
"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Ghost Rider

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2011, 05:23:42 PM »
Our culture becomes softer every day.
People these days are not as rough as the ones that came before them as we are not as rough as those who came before us.
Times are softer and people are softer.
I think it start with less or no sports programs in our schools, and more computer and video.
We are more liable when we defend ourselves and are looked at almost the same as those who attacked us.
If your chils is kicked out of school for defending their self what kind of message are they getting?
(Both are kicked out)
Fighting is bad no matter what the circumstances are.
(Lay there and take it)
Times are different so people will be different.
There’s not as much gold in the hills as there used to be but there are still a few nuggets out there if we keep our eyes open.
Grandmaster Reyes was just telling me a few weeks ago that my guys hit hard and that if he hit his people the way we do that most of them would not come back.
That is true, but those were some of my old school guys and the new school people will never be at that level.
Keep in mind he was watching one of my black belts hit me as well.
I DO LIKE TO BANG!
I give each student what they are looking for and keep my eye open for the few that want to play on the dark side of the alley.
It is what it is.
Greg Harper
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 05:25:44 PM by Ghost Rider »
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2011, 06:02:53 PM »
We are more liable when we defend ourselves and are looked at almost the same as those who attacked us.
 

Then we are forced to go into an anger management class because we dared consider defending ourselves as a suitable option.  Absolutely amazing. Gotta be crafty in every aspect these days.

pat
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2011, 08:04:10 PM »
I think if the student isn't prepared to defend themselves by the time they are Black, that Instructor really has to look at what they are teaching. 
After a couple of months a white belt should have a exponentially tougher body then they had when they started and much tougher then average person on the street.
Many fights not only are won by skill but by attrition ....When people asked why I choose Kaju as one of the arts I trained in...I say the people are very tough
and if a fight breaks out who do you want at your back...the guy who is highly skilled but won't fight out fear, or the guy that is super tough and jumps in no matter what will happen. 
Give the that one with heart.  Having people spar or roll so early Gints is a way to get people over their fear...you can't learn to swim without getting wet. 
Oh course if you have a fear of sharks you may never come back and we see that also...but what can ya do....
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

Offline sifutimg

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2011, 12:56:20 AM »
I agree with Prof Bono on his comment about the body being exponentially tougher.  To get to that point as new students come into the dojo, the expectations are set from the get go AND existing students know not to pound a new student out.  As new students experience the contact training, being thrown to the ground and banged out, and sparring hitting/kicking the body hard and some amount of contact they get the chance to work in and up to a tougher level.  Of course some students can't hang and they go else where.  Some student start out initially somewhat fearful of the contact but hang with it and find they actually like it (this is so cool when it happens). 

Kajukenbo training NEEDs and MUST remain this way.  GM Harper in an old post somewhere said something that has always stuck with me (paraphrasing), "We hit you not because we don't like you, we hit you because we love you".  I realize from generation to generation with technology and the lack of school programs as pointed out isn't helping, then you have the sue happy crowd.  So we all tread carefully but I think we find our jewels nonetheless.

With Respect,
Tim
Grandmaster Tim Gagnier
Student of Great Grandmaster Charles Gaylord & Grandmaster Sid Lopez
Chief Instructor Pacific Wind Kajukenbo
Student Forever
Yamhill, Oregon

Offline dom28

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2011, 05:43:07 AM »
One trick my teacher told me on how to ease a "green" student in to contact was to have him hold a thinnish strike shield up to his chest with his arms above and below (so the blows hit his body not the arms)then get in to the pad with every thing you've got.one new student I got resently seems to be one of those nuggets Prof Harper was talking about.on his first class he asked to spar full contact with one of the black belts I told him he could go at what ever pace he wanted as it was his first class but NO he wanted go full contact.he partners a black belt who loves to shin kick the new guy jumps in and hits the BB in the face so the BB then dose what we call a SPIRIT test and smashes the guy with shin kick after shin kick knocking him down again & again each time he gos down he is asked if he wants to go on & each time he says yes this gos on for about 10 to 15 mins when the class is over he is not walking well but he has a huge grin on his face  seven months on and he is still training the same exsept he now has a yellow belt.lets hope he keeps on to black
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 05:45:17 AM by dom28 »
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Offline Pat Regan

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2011, 09:26:39 AM »
dom28 said: "One trick my teacher told me on how to ease a "green" student in to contact was to have him hold a thinnish strike shield up to his chest with his arms above and below (so the blows hit his body not the arms)then get in to the pad with every thing you've got."

Really?  What's the intent?  To get your jollies by hurting an unsuspecting neophyte?  Or to completely destroy his trust in you?  What you're saying shows none of the understanding a professional instructor should have. 

dom28 also said; "on his first class he asked to spar full contact with one of the black belts."

And you allowed that?  How totally irresponsible.  Have you any idea the liability you exposed yourself to?  Again, this is unbelievable!   

And by the way: you describe yourself as a second degree black; and yet, you have other black belts (plural) in your school?  Did you promote them? 

dom28 went on to say: "he partners a black belt who loves to shin kick the new guy jumps in and hits the BB in the face so the BB then dose what we call a SPIRIT test and smashes the guy with shin kick after shin kick knocking him down again & again each time he gos down he is asked if he wants to go on & each time he says yes this gos on for about 10 to 15 mins when the class is over he is not walking well but he has a huge grin on his face"

Seriously?  Again, that's absolutely unbelievable.  A well-delivered blade to the shin will stop most men cold in their tracks and send them writhing to the floor in excruciating, irresistable pain.  I've been hurt that way many times, and it's one of my favorite weapons.  So it's hard for me to understand how your black belt could nail this guy "again & again" and the dude just shrugs it off.  Either your black belt can't kick hard enough to break an egg; or the newbie was a war vet who'd stepped on a land mine and was walking on stainless steel prosthesi.  From what I've seen in training, in the ring, and in the street, I just can't envision this going down the way you describe it.

And don't tell me about hard core Kajukenbo training.  I was trained by the Kanakas who invented it; and during our first weeks in the club, we were guided with skill, respect, and restraint.  The rough stuff was brought on by degrees, when our instructors knew we were ready for it.

Frankly, I'm beginning to wonder if you're real, or some kid up here pretending.  What is your lineage?  I want to talk to your instructor, to see if he co-signs your methods because, to me, you sound like a threat to public safety.

Not trying to be funny; that's how I honestly feel about what you're saying.  I've had the honor and privelege of knowing some of the best martial arts instructors of modern times; and I can't imagine any of them publicly advocating the kind of things you're publishing here.

If (God help the innocent!) you really are running a martial arts academy; and you really are doing the kind of things you describe above; I implore you to rethink your approach: to preserve the reputation of the martial arts, and for the wellbeing of all who walk in your front door seeking knowledge.

VBR,

Pat   



Gung Fu

Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2011, 09:46:48 AM »
And don't tell me about hard core Kajukenbo training.  I was trained by the Kanakas who invented it; and during our first weeks in the club, we were guided with skill, respect, and restraint.  The rough stuff was brought on by degrees, when our instructors knew we were ready for it.

 VBR,

Pat   






:)

pat
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Offline dom28

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Re: WHATS WITH STUDENTS TODAY?
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2011, 10:13:07 AM »
first of all i do not mean green in terms of rank just in terms of condishoning its a process that takes time buts its a good place to start as its softer than some ways .second the student i was talking about was already a black belt in goju ryu karate as well as traning in MMA.i do not promote to black belt the black belts are promoted my a chief instructor normaly a 6th dan or higher.and the black belt can break a egg he was pulling the kick it is not the idea to kill him just to make it strengthen us mentaly .and we never make a student do anything  they are not happy doing.i am sorry if I gave you the inpreshon that we kill each other we train so that we can still go to work tomorow
« Last Edit: January 30, 2011, 10:22:32 AM by dom28 »
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