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original Prof. Chow drills

Author Topic: original Prof. Chow drills  (Read 17196 times)

Offline punisher73

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 06:56:13 AM »
Aloha,

No disrespect to Bill Chun's Jr. teaching, but Professor Chow did not have any rolls that would be considered judo and/or jujitsu techniques in his teaching.  Professor Chow would frequent Professor's Okazaki's class (Kaheka) but would refuse to train any ground techniques.  The aforementioned was told to me by GM Freddie Lara, GM Maurice Hornos Sr., (late) Manny Dela Curz (long time assistant) Uncle Frank.  GM Eugene Sedeno had the opportunity on various occasions to work out with Professor Chow and he stated that he would beat the living day lights out of you and beat you to the ground.  No rolling and tumbling.  I also had the opportunity to talk Professor Chow in 1978 (China Town) and we talk about his system for about 2 hours.  

Respectfully



Thank you for that information!

Do you know of any drills that were used to train students?  I read one that a metal folding chair was used to punch while one student held it, but that is the only drill I have come across that was specific.
Kevin A. Hirakis
SW Michigan

Offline Kenpo_85

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 11:44:50 AM »
Seems like they would be going through metal folding chairs quite quickly, unless they were just used for beginners and they used something heavier for the advanced students. With the hand conditioning of all those guys the odds of a folding chair lasting more than a class or two seem quite low to me.

sgns1173

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 02:37:57 PM »
Aloha,

Sijo had said to me that Professor Chow was much more innovative and creative in his martial art techniques than Mitose.  Remember, Sijo trained with the both of them.          
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 02:39:28 PM by Kalihi/Palama Boy »

Offline Danjo

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2010, 01:39:05 AM »
Aloha,

Sijo had said to me that Professor Chow was much more innovative and creative in his martial art techniques than Mitose.  Remember, Sijo trained with the both of them.          


That's pretty vague. Firstly, you'd have to describe Mitose's training for us to understand what that was like. Secondly, it still doesn't answer the question of what the drills were.

Sijo also said that Prof. Chow had a black belt in Judo. I have also heard that sometimes Prof. Chow would use nothing except grappling to defeat someone when sparring if he felt like it or got bored. Seems he mixed things up quite a bit over the years.
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sgns1173

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2010, 12:12:38 PM »
Danjo,


Professor Chow did not use rolls or falls in is martial arts curriculum.      
The practitioners I've have talked to, have trained with the Professor.  
Maybe what you you have heard maybe differrent?        

    

« Last Edit: October 16, 2010, 07:58:50 PM by Kalihi/Palama Boy »

Offline Danjo

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2010, 11:31:39 AM »
Danjo,


Professor Chow did not use rolls or falls in is martial arts curriculum.      
The practitioners I've have talked to, have trained with the Professor.  
Maybe what you you have heard maybe differrent?        

    



Yes, I have heard differently,. But hen, that's to be expected given how long he taught.

Still, back to the original question, besides knowing what he didn't train like, can you describe what he did train like?
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sgns1173

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2010, 03:42:13 AM »
Aloha,

"Chow would use nothing except grappling to defeat someone when sparring if he felt like it or got bored. Seems he mixed things up quite a bit over the years".

Just curious, can anyone tell us who Professor Chow's grappling teacher was?

« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 03:44:45 AM by Kalihi/Palama Boy »

Offline punisher73

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2010, 08:04:26 AM »
Aloha,

"Chow would use nothing except grappling to defeat someone when sparring if he felt like it or got bored. Seems he mixed things up quite a bit over the years".

Just curious, can anyone tell us who Professor Chow's grappling teacher was?



I had heard that Prof. Chow's brother was a student of Danzan-Ryu and that Prof. Chow went with him sometimes (not sure the frequency). 
Kevin A. Hirakis
SW Michigan

Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2010, 12:12:34 PM »
I remember being told years ago that Professor Chow often watched the dan zan ryu classes but it wasn't to learn the techniuqes. He did it to figure out how to defeat grapplers.
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Offline Danjo

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #24 on: October 18, 2010, 12:46:06 PM »
Aloha,

"Chow would use nothing except grappling to defeat someone when sparring if he felt like it or got bored. Seems he mixed things up quite a bit over the years".

Just curious, can anyone tell us who Professor Chow's grappling teacher was?



Nope. Just that Sijo said he was a judo black belt. Since he knew him pretty well from back then, I would guess that it is accurate information.
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
Dan Weston
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FMAA
Don't tell me how much you honor Sijo, if you don't respect his wishes.

Offline Wado

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2010, 12:50:44 PM »
I'm not sure if this is relevant but I looked up William K.S. Chow in an older (1983) Martial Arts encyclopedia and it states that during his youth, Chow studied Judo (among a list of things). I searched around on the Internet and found a reference that Chow starting around age 10 for a few years after that studied Judo at a local YMCA.

I know this may not be the most correct information in the book or on the Internet, but if and when Professor Chow did anything like grappling, it did not have to come directly from a single teacher or system. Why could it not be supplemental training, like sparring or circuit training.

Rather than look for original drills taught by Chow, why not cross-train in Judo or Danzan-Ryu?

IMHO.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2010, 12:58:52 PM by Wado »
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Offline Sifu Sin Bin

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 09:21:17 PM »
I can teach you the techniques and drills that were taught to me by Bill Chun Sr. who was Chow's student but time and space and my general dislike for typing lately prohibit me from doing so here. Send me an IM and I will help you as I can.
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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #27 on: October 18, 2010, 10:11:11 PM »
Danjo,

We understand that Sijo said Professor Chow was a judo black belt so if that's the case then we should be able to locate people who were aware of when Prof. Chow trained in judo and who promoted him. There were only a couple of legit judo teachers in Hawaii at the time. The dan zan ryu folks would know if Professor Chow was promoted in their art. If Prof. Chow is not listed in their organization, then perhaps Prof. Bishop or someone else on the cafe knows the names of the other judo teachers in Hawaii and we can try and see if any of them claim to have promoted Prof. Chow.

Here's what I'm thinking. Prof. Chow was pretty well known for his kenpo-karate and I don't see him going to another teacher and taking lessons. Not back then. We all know Prof. Chow went to Prof. Okizaki's school and watched, but I've never heard anyone say anything about him getting on the mat to train. He may have cross-trained with his brother or something like that.

Other than that, Judo has a set number of techniques that you must be able to demonstrate in order to earn a black belt. Those techniques are not easy to learn and take time on the mat to perfect.

I guess the question to others is did Prof. Chow spend four to five years on the mat perfecting these techniques under a legitimate judo teacher and then pass a black belt test?


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Offline punisher73

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 07:07:34 AM »
I can teach you the techniques and drills that were taught to me by Bill Chun Sr. who was Chow's student but time and space and my general dislike for typing lately prohibit me from doing so here. Send me an IM and I will help you as I can.

Thank you, I sent an email to you.

Kevin A. Hirakis
SW Michigan

Offline punisher73

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Re: original Prof. Chow drills
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 07:11:57 AM »
Danjo,

We understand that Sijo said Professor Chow was a judo black belt so if that's the case then we should be able to locate people who were aware of when Prof. Chow trained in judo and who promoted him. There were only a couple of legit judo teachers in Hawaii at the time. The dan zan ryu folks would know if Professor Chow was promoted in their art. If Prof. Chow is not listed in their organization, then perhaps Prof. Bishop or someone else on the cafe knows the names of the other judo teachers in Hawaii and we can try and see if any of them claim to have promoted Prof. Chow.

Here's what I'm thinking. Prof. Chow was pretty well known for his kenpo-karate and I don't see him going to another teacher and taking lessons. Not back then. We all know Prof. Chow went to Prof. Okizaki's school and watched, but I've never heard anyone say anything about him getting on the mat to train. He may have cross-trained with his brother or something like that.

Other than that, Judo has a set number of techniques that you must be able to demonstrate in order to earn a black belt. Those techniques are not easy to learn and take time on the mat to perfect.

I guess the question to others is did Prof. Chow spend four to five years on the mat perfecting these techniques under a legitimate judo teacher and then pass a black belt test?


That's a good point, one of the original founder of Kajukenbo was a Judo blackbelt and Ed Parker was supposedly a Judo BB as well so there are a couple of close links to Prof. Chow and Judo.  While doing some follow up on the Danzen ryu link,  I read that most of Parker's early grappling defenses were designed around the Danzan-Ryu method of attack.  That would make sense if Prof. Chow went to the classes to learn how to defeat their approach and passed that on to his students.

Prof. Chow may have also incorporated throws/moves that he found effective from those styles and incorporated some of them in his approach without formally studying them.  I have an old email from Prof. Bishop that says that Prof. Chow did teach Judo to his early students, but doesn't say where he learned it.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2010, 07:23:05 AM by punisher73 »
Kevin A. Hirakis
SW Michigan