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How do you jiu-jitsu?

Author Topic: How do you jiu-jitsu?  (Read 28371 times)

Offline Greg Hoyt

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 01:25:16 PM »
Aloha,
As much as I love to roll, the ground is a bad place to be in a fight. 
Having said that, we train all ranges of combat.  Every 5th training night we do Groundfighting.  Sifu Trent has broken the techniques down so that in order to reach Purple Belt, for example, the student must demonstrate defensive tactics from inside the guard of an aggressive training partner (good base, elbows in, protect the face, good posture, etc.).  For Purple Belt the student also needs to show the strikes from inside the guard.  These strikes include all the MMA stuff, plus all the dirty, nasty, brutal strikes we know and love.  Another example:  for Brown Belt the student must demonstrate how to shrimp and replace the guard from under the side mount. 
Basic BJJ stuff with the survival techniques added. 
On Groundfighting night we usually spar "Street Guard".  Training partners, one inside the other's guard.  GO means fight to your feet, submit, sweep, strike, pass the guard, etc. 
Good fun. 

Sibak Greg
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Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
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Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 01:46:53 PM »
We roll daily I think it's a very different type of skill set then standup.  Anaerobic as opposed to aerobic also.  The problem mainly is you can not get off the ground once there then the fight will stay there.  

How many people are good enough to have a one punch knock out?  It's a rare case.  How many people can clinch and take someone down.....many more, maybe just on luck or from high school wrestling.

It takes time to build the feel of the ground, like it does for Hubud or Chi Sao. I think a flaw in many well most straight ground schools are they work technique all day and hardly ever really free roll.  

There guys may know many techniques, but they can't apply them or even feel the set up for them.  It's like the people who hit pads or in the air for hours, but never really spar with true contact.

  They can punch, but they rarely have the timing and perception to hit the person they are fighting.....
« Last Edit: July 24, 2010, 11:09:51 AM by KajuJKDFighter »
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Offline Danjo

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 02:10:47 PM »
We roll daily I think it's a very different type of skill set then standup.  Anaerobic as opposed to aerobic also.  The problem mainly is you can not get off the ground once there then the fight will stay there.  How many people are good enough to have a one punch knock out?  It's a rare case.  How many people can clinch and take someone down.....many more, maybe just on luck or from high school wrestling
It takes time to build the feel of the ground, like it does for Hubud or Chi Sao. I think a flaw in many.well most straight ground schools are they work technique all day and hardly ever really free roll.  there guys may know many techniques but they can't apply them or even feel the set up for them.  It's like the people who hit pads or in the air for hours but never really spar with true contact.  The can punch but they rarely have the timing and perception to hit the person they are fighting.....


What he said. ;)
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 02:14:50 PM »
GM John E Bono DC
9th Degree Grand Master Gaylord Method Kajukenbo
Full Instructor-Hartsell's Jeet Kune Do Grappling Assoc
Chief Instructor Bono's Jeet Kune Do/Kajukenbo
Champions aren't made in the gyms. Champions are made from something they have deep inside them a desire,a dream,a vision

sleddog

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 03:50:40 PM »
What is that? .....Catjukenbo?

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2009, 03:55:08 PM »
Yes and it is a Deadly Art
GM John E Bono DC
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Offline Danjo

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2009, 03:55:27 PM »
I thought it was Clawjukenbo
"Rank Without Honor is Nothing."
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Offline jensad

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2009, 06:36:33 PM »
I'll vote for that cat, what is he/she running for?

Good luck and stay safe.

jim nordlie, a student of GGMGaylord since 1963
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Offline sifutimg

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2009, 06:37:39 PM »
Something else to be aware of is if going to another school to learn the ground be careful to not allow the training to train the strikes out of you.  One of my black belts who lives away from me currently went to a Jujitsu school where they really emphasized the submitt part of training.  Well after a year I got to roll with him and was surprised that he didn't take advantage of many opportunities to strike me and we came to the conclusion that they didn't allow the striking in their training and he lost a bit of awareness in this area however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring.

Just my 2-cents,
Tim
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2009, 07:03:35 PM »
Something else to be aware of is if going to another school to learn the ground be careful to not allow the training to train the strikes out of you.  One of my black belts who lives away from me currently went to a Jujitsu school where they really emphasized the submitt part of training.  Well after a year I got to roll with him and was surprised that he didn't take advantage of many opportunities to strike me and we came to the conclusion that they didn't allow the striking in their training and he lost a bit of awareness in this area however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring.

Just my 2-cents,
Tim

Excellent point.
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Offline Wado

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 10:46:19 AM »
Something else to be aware of is if going to another school to learn the ground be careful to not allow the training to train the strikes out of you.  One of my black belts who lives away from me currently went to a Jujitsu school where they really emphasized the submitt part of training.  Well after a year I got to roll with him and was surprised that he didn't take advantage of many opportunities to strike me and we came to the conclusion that they didn't allow the striking in their training and he lost a bit of awareness in this area however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring.

Just my 2-cents,
Tim

Good point.

Related to this point, I know that people also tend to over think combat/sparring, especially when they are learning something new.  This is kind of like having tunnel vision.  I know when I was starting cross-training in BJJ, after a few months every time I would end up on the ground I would put my back to the ground and end up pulling the opponent into my guard... I was so set on working from that position that I was neglecting common sense (e.g. I was missing better opportunities and basically making stupid mistakes).

I don't think this can happen just with cross-training either... it can happen anytime the training is focused on limited choices.  The issue isn't with the limited choices, it is when there are conflicting intentions with what choices there are.

What I mean is that if you have training focused on sport, you know it is going to intense and good competitive training... on the other hand, the concept of ara waza (severe technique) could be completely neglected in a sport environment.  Severe technique is done at about three times faster than normal technique and gives no opportunity for ukemi... it is technique to break and finish the enemy quickly. 

Most of the roots of Kaju technique is training for severe technique... only that in training we allow for ukemi for the safety of our training partners.

I guess the lesson is don't get too comfortable with a certain training response to anything... instead you should have unlimited response!

...however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring...

Just about a good balance... not to be taken completely literally, but I would say that 90% of combat is striking.


« Last Edit: April 03, 2009, 10:53:08 AM by Wado »
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 12:44:01 PM »
 
[/quote]

What I mean is that if you have training focused on sport, you know it is going to intense and good competitive training... on the other hand, the concept of ara waza (severe technique) could be completely neglected in a sport environment.  Severe technique is done at about three times faster than normal technique and gives no opportunity for ukemi... it is technique to break and finish the enemy quickly. 

Most of the roots of Kaju technique is training for severe technique... only that in training we allow for ukemi for the safety of our training partners.

 
[/quote]

Thank you for the traditional clarification of what we are all trying to say in one form or another. It makes great sense.

Respectfully,

Pat
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
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Offline Patrick Campbell

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 12:47:38 PM »
Something else to be aware of is if going to another school to learn the ground be careful to not allow the training to train the strikes out of you.  One of my black belts who lives away from me currently went to a Jujitsu school where they really emphasized the submitt part of training.  Well after a year I got to roll with him and was surprised that he didn't take advantage of many opportunities to strike me and we came to the conclusion that they didn't allow the striking in their training and he lost a bit of awareness in this area however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring.

Just my 2-cents,
Tim

Good point.

Related to this point, I know that people also tend to over think combat/sparring, especially when they are learning something new.  This is kind of like having tunnel vision.  I know when I was starting cross-training in BJJ, after a few months every time I would end up on the ground I would put my back to the ground and end up pulling the opponent into my guard... I was so set on working from that position that I was neglecting common sense (e.g. I was missing better opportunities and basically making stupid mistakes).

I don't think this can happen just with cross-training either... it can happen anytime the training is focused on limited choices.  The issue isn't with the limited choices, it is when there are conflicting intentions with what choices there are.

What I mean is that if you have training focused on sport, you know it is going to intense and good competitive training... on the other hand, the concept of ara waza (severe technique) could be completely neglected in a sport environment.  Severe technique is done at about three times faster than normal technique and gives no opportunity for ukemi... it is technique to break and finish the enemy quickly. 

Most of the roots of Kaju technique is training for severe technique... only that in training we allow for ukemi for the safety of our training partners.

I guess the lesson is don't get too comfortable with a certain training response to anything... instead you should have unlimited response!

...however it did only last for about half hour or so as beating on him woke him up and then a great balance of striking and grappling was occurring...

Just about a good balance... not to be taken completely literally, but I would say that 90% of combat is striking.




I might also that this severe technique is not just three times fastert but it is a certain focused "meaness" intent to destroy with "severe" impunity.

Pat
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
Kenpo - SGM Rick Alemany 
DZR Jujitsu - ETS / AJI
BJJ - ETS / USFBJJ / Master Joe Moreira
Combat Sambo - ETS / GCA / GM Alan New 
JKD / Kun Tao - ETS / IMB / G. Savelli
Royal Hawaiian Lua - ETS PA / Olohe Eli

Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2009, 04:04:26 PM »
The cat in the picture just performed a mata leao
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Offline GM ALAN M. REYES

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Re: How do you jiu-jitsu?
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2010, 01:06:20 PM »
I just read all the great points brought up by this thread,very interesting.
So it boils down to the Kajukenbo training, that there IS only ONE person that will walk away, from any confrontation, and if it isn't YOU! END OF STORY,,,,train like there is no tomorrow now, and fight with lethality, so there is a tomorrow for you and yours!!!!!
with all due respect
GMReyes
SGM Alan M. Reyes
SrGrandMaster KSDI(2014)
GrandMaster KSDI(1999)
9th DegreeRed/SilverBelt KSDI(1986)
60Yrs.ContinuousTraining KSDI/ReyesKenpoKarate(2014)
FirstGenerationStudent/Successor-GGM Aleju C. Reyes-RKK CA(1959)
FirstGenerationStudent-GGM Sijo Adriano D. Emperado-Palama Settlement Hi(1954)