Deprecated: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is deprecated, use preg_replace_callback instead in /home/kajukenb/public_html/cafe/Sources/Load.php(183) : runtime-created function on line 3
Black sash or belt age level

Author Topic: Black sash or belt age level  (Read 6392 times)

Offline kevin

  • White Belt
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Black sash or belt age level
« on: April 09, 2008, 10:38:06 AM »
Are there any of the branches or methods of KAJUKENBO that promote to a black belt before the age of eighteen?
Kevin  Blue sash
Northern Style Kajukenbo Tum Pai
Mark Moy's Kung-Fu and Tai-Chi Academy
Sifu Mark Moy
Vancouver, WA

Offline kfarny

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2008, 07:00:11 PM »
Depends on the school/instructor/student.

My son is a "Jr, Black Belt, 1st. degree". He is ten. All that means is that he has been doing it 5 years and moved through all of the kids curriculum. It is stressed to the students and the parents that their Jr. grade Black is not equal to or a replacement for an "Adult" BLack. When he is old enough to move into the adult class (depending on maturity, 15/16), he has to start over and move back through to Black. That puts him at late 17 / early 18.
Kirk Farnsworth   3rd Degree,  East/West Method Tum Pai
East West Martial Arts, Master Doug Bertrand
Vancouver, Wa.

Offline NYKaju

  • Black Belt
  • *****
  • Posts: 1113
  • Village Pariah
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2008, 11:37:43 PM »
Depends on the school/instructor/student.

My son is a "Jr, Black Belt, 1st. degree". He is ten. All that means is that he has been doing it 5 years and moved through all of the kids curriculum. It is stressed to the students and the parents that their Jr. grade Black is not equal to or a replacement for an "Adult" BLack. When he is old enough to move into the adult class (depending on maturity, 15/16), he has to start over and move back through to Black. That puts him at late 17 / early 18.


ouch, he goes back to white belt? Probably the most honest ranking structure, but still stinks for the little guys to move all the way up. Kinda of a let down.

My old school promoted to black before 18. The Judo and BJJ I x-train in have extra children's ranks in between white belt and the standard adult ranks. Can't get to blue/green level before you're 16 there, let alone black belt.
Sensei/Coach James Mayors
Ronin Martial Arts
Kajukenbo under Dan Tyrrell
BJJ under Matt Serra
Judo under Mark Staniszewski
"You don't rise to the level of your expectations, you fall to the level of your training"

Offline Patrick Campbell

  • Sifu
  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 694
  • Train the way you fight!
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2008, 06:37:40 AM »
It's not about the belt. It's about the skill, maturity and mental/emotional development of the student. The belt should merely reflect these traits. Since the first blackbelt rank is a "student Black belt" it should represent the student's understanding and dedication to Kajukenbo and his/her skill. It is the most important rank besides Sibak (Blackbelt 1st Degree) because it sets the tone for all that follows. Give it away when it is not warrented and the student will expect it all the time and will do the same with his/her students. This creates watered-down systems that in time loose their overall potency and respect from the world community. Kajukenbo is a World Martial Art.

As far as the age, few 16 year olds possess the maturity and skill to put on a student blackbelt. I have been training my son since he was able to walk. He is 21 and still a brownbelt. He doesn't care about belts either. He himself has told me that he just wants to know that he can survive in those instances most would die in. It is a violent world we live in and someone can take it all away from us in a second.

Unfortunately, I believe that there are a significant percentage of people who are too concerned about just putting on the rank so they can look big to the uneducated and unskilled. Don't be one of these people. They will do anything including things less than honorable and ethical to feed their selfish desires. They will dishonor their Ohana. There is no pride in rank with these kind. They are "parasites" and should be squashed in order to expose them. A strong Black Belt should be able to do the squashing. Rank should come when the teacher thinks you are ready to step into it. You have to carry on the traditions of Kajukenbo including not giving rank away. Take pride in your training and train as if you will need it this second because this second may be your last.

Pat

Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
Kenpo - SGM Rick Alemany 
DZR Jujitsu - ETS / AJI
BJJ - ETS / USFBJJ / Master Joe Moreira
Combat Sambo - ETS / GCA / GM Alan New 
JKD / Kun Tao - ETS / IMB / G. Savelli
Royal Hawaiian Lua - ETS PA / Olohe Eli

Offline Greg Hoyt

  • BlackBelt
  • Blue Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 389
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2008, 03:21:33 PM »
Aloha,
There are no "Junior Black Belts" at Sera's Kajukenbo, there are only one set of testing requirements for each belt level.  Sifu Trent has stressed that in order to "EARN" the next belt level the student must fulfill ALL of the requirements, physical toughness, mental toughness, class attendance, training attitude, moral standards, compassion, fighting spirit.......along with all the techniques, pinians, counters, etc displayed with power, speed, and accuracy.  One of the final test requirements are full contact, multi-man attacks (the number of attackers depends on the belt level).  For Black Belt, the Sihing must survive a 20 man attack, which includes weapons and some attacks waged with more than one attacker at a time.  Pretty intense. 
There is no way a "kid" could fulfill these requirements.  Sifu Trent won't even consider it before the age of 15.

Respectfully,
Sibak Greg
Sifu Greg Hoyt
Hoyt's Kajukenbo, Peoria, Arizona
Under Sigung Trent Sera, Professor Kailani Koa
Train Hard - Fight Dirty

Offline caseuscalvas

  • White Belt
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2008, 03:25:24 PM »
We do, and we don't call it a 'junior' belt or anything of the sort. If one of our students has truly mastered Kajukenbo and really can defend themself, they can test for a full black belt.
Zack Gilliam
Brown Belt under Sifu George Briones
Emperado Method

Offline John Bishop

  • Senior Black Belt
  • Black Belt
  • ***
  • Posts: 2605
  • Seek Knowledge, Not Rank
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2008, 04:30:09 PM »
We do, and we don't call it a 'junior' belt or anything of the sort. If one of our students has truly mastered Kajukenbo and really can defend themself, they can test for a full black belt.

How many children or teens "truly master Kajukenbo" and "really can defend themselves" (against adult attackers)?
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
K.S.D.I. # 478, FMAA


"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline lairkenpo

  • BlackBelt
  • White Belt
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Hanshi P.J.Hary in green, me in black
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2008, 08:12:14 PM »
I really don't want to offend anybody, but, the truth hurts. Not as much as hopping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it still hurts!

In this case, I echo the opinion of John Bishop, and many of the older members of the Kaju family: There isn't a 16 or 17 year old who's truly "mastered" our art, or any Martial Art for that matter. By simple math concerning their age, they haven't trained long enough to have "mastered" all of the aspects (ie., speed, power, physical strength, endurance, experience, and, last but not least, maturity by "life experience"!). Okay, over the years, I've met many kids who were very physically talented mimics who could imitate any move they saw. Quite often, these youngsters could perform the mechanics of some techniques better than the one who demonstrated them. However, without years of consistent practice, their techniques will never be as good as they could be after 5, or 6, or 15 years! Since improvement is measured by the current skill level of the practitioner as compared to their beginning skill level, the individual should be give enough time to really polish their skills, and be the best THEY can be. I don't care how good you may be in a pre-pubescent body, your true abilities will not emerge until your body has physically matured. Ask professional athletes, their trainers, and the physicians who treat them.

A pre-teen, or teenager, may be very strong, and may even be able to beat a lot of adults on the floor and/or in the ring. However, put them on the floor with the average practitioner who has been training consistently for 15 or 20 years (notice , I said consistently training, not armchair warriors!), and I'll put my money on experience. Period.

Just one man's opinion ...

Sifu Robert Windle
Robert L. Windle, Sifu (Retired)
6th Degree Black Belt, Kajukenbo / Hawaiian Kenpo
KSDI #5069
The Lair Dojo

Offline Patrick Campbell

  • Sifu
  • BlackBelt
  • Brown Belt
  • ****
  • Posts: 694
  • Train the way you fight!
Re: Black sash or belt age level
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2008, 08:55:05 AM »
I agree, sir. Although there may be some who are great in competitions this does not translate to life and death. Life experience and diversity in training are all important factors for us all. We spend a lifetime refining what is important and never stop learning from both ourselves and others. It is a wonderful journey in my opinion and it translates into every facet of our lives. To me, it is about self mastery and this is a matter of constant refinement. The older masters and grandmasters should be and most often are simply more refined as it were.

Pat

I really don't want to offend anybody, but, the truth hurts. Not as much as hopping on a bicycle with the seat missing, but it still hurts!

In this case, I echo the opinion of John Bishop, and many of the older members of the Kaju family: There isn't a 16 or 17 year old who's truly "mastered" our art, or any Martial Art for that matter. By simple math concerning their age, they haven't trained long enough to have "mastered" all of the aspects (ie., speed, power, physical strength, endurance, experience, and, last but not least, maturity by "life experience"!). Okay, over the years, I've met many kids who were very physically talented mimics who could imitate any move they saw. Quite often, these youngsters could perform the mechanics of some techniques better than the one who demonstrated them. However, without years of consistent practice, their techniques will never be as good as they could be after 5, or 6, or 15 years! Since improvement is measured by the current skill level of the practitioner as compared to their beginning skill level, the individual should be give enough time to really polish their skills, and be the best THEY can be. I don't care how good you may be in a pre-pubescent body, your true abilities will not emerge until your body has physically matured. Ask professional athletes, their trainers, and the physicians who treat them.

A pre-teen, or teenager, may be very strong, and may even be able to beat a lot of adults on the floor and/or in the ring. However, put them on the floor with the average practitioner who has been training consistently for 15 or 20 years (notice , I said consistently training, not armchair warriors!), and I'll put my money on experience. Period.

Just one man's opinion ...

Sifu Robert Windle
Patrick "Kaponookalani" Campbell, Ph.D.
KAJUKENBO - Professor Kai Li - ETS / HKA
Kenpo - SGM Rick Alemany 
DZR Jujitsu - ETS / AJI
BJJ - ETS / USFBJJ / Master Joe Moreira
Combat Sambo - ETS / GCA / GM Alan New 
JKD / Kun Tao - ETS / IMB / G. Savelli
Royal Hawaiian Lua - ETS PA / Olohe Eli