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RECIPE PLEASE

Author Topic: RECIPE PLEASE  (Read 20077 times)

Offline Rob Poelking

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RECIPE PLEASE
« on: February 25, 2008, 09:29:29 PM »
Ok, I know this sounds like it belongs in the Cafe board with all the BBQ stuff but I'm not exactly cooking.

JOW as it Dit da Jow. Some of you prepare your own. I've gone to the the Chinese herbal shop and picked up the golf ball sized manure ball and prepared a concoction but it never seemed like it did the job.

How do you prepare yours? Next how do you apply it? What other Chinese medicines have you used? For what and how?
Have you applied other "mystical" forms of healing in your training. How have they worked for you?
Rob Poelking, Black Belt, Original Method
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Offline sifutimg

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2008, 02:37:47 AM »
I am definitely a layman when it comes to preparing jow.  I got a recipe a friend of mine, then gave it to my acupuncturist and he made some changes to it.  I have yet to prepare it though.  I have everything except for the herbs.  What I am hearing for preparation though is to get a 5 gallon glass jar and a coffee grinder that you will only use for herbs and nothing else.  I have heard not to use a coffee grinder as the speed in which it grinds up the herbs is not good for the herbs.  However the last batch of jow my friend made using a coffee grinder was superb.  My acupuncturist says it probably would be OK but if you want to hand grind them then go for it.  I will be using 100 proof vodka.  Some folks use brandy as there is more medicinal properties using brandy but I couldn't afford that much brandy.  The other jow that was really good was made with vodka so am going with that.  Then you basically grind up the herbs and mix them with the vodka in the 5 gallon glass jar and let set in a cool dark place for at the very least 3 months.  Longer is better.  Go in and shake the herbs around about once or twice a week.  Again I am very new to making jow and this is what I will be doing although I am sure others have many great suggestions.

I just bought some jow from GM Loren last Saturday when I saw him at the Federal Way, Washington seminar.  I hear his jow is top notch and people from over seas buy from him as he has perfected his recipe greatly.

As far as other stuff I have used goes, I have used Po Som On oil.  It‚Äôs great for sore muscles.  It's a blood and chi mover.  Can be found at most Asian markets and maybe some acupuncturists carry it.  Mine does.  Po Som On can stain clothes so be careful.  It is also good to clear your congestion.  I just put a little under my nose when I have been stuffy with a cold.

I have used Kwan Loong oil.  It's clear.  It is also for sore muscles, strains, bruises, arthritis, and backaches.  My acupuncturists says one of the ingredients is oil of wintergreen (although it doesn't say this in the ingredient list explicitly) and is like one molecule away from aspirins so is a good pain reliever.

I have also used Zheng Gu Shui. It means bone-setting solution.  It's good for the regeneration of bone tissue, relieves pain, and helps with circulation.  My acupuncturist also says it's good for inflammation and use it on my knees and seems to work well.

Lastly I use Indonesian Balur (sometimes called Balur Cimande).  It's pretty much the same as jow except it's in a coconut base where jow is usually an alcohol base.  I like the Balur better for arm and leg conditioning where I like jow for trauma and bruises.  The only thing about Balur is you have to heat it up as the coconut oil thickens and has to be melted.

Anyway that's what I have used and they all work well.  Looking forward to trying out GM Lorens jow.  I applied some of GM Loren's jow tonight on one of my students who had the pleasure of receiving some love from Tai Sigung Rob (Sin Bin) in last Saturday's seminar.  He had quite the bruise up around his shoulder area.  So many purty colors  ;D

Hope that helps Rob,
Tim
Professor Tim Gagnier
Student of Great Grandmaster Charles Gaylord & Grandmaster Sid Lopez
Chief Instructor Pacific Wind Kajukenbo
Student Forever
Yamhill, Oregon

Offline Rob Poelking

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 07:53:32 AM »
I'm actually very surprised to not have as many replies to this post. Do none of you use Dit Da Jow or is this a secret family recipe?
Rob Poelking, Black Belt, Original Method
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 10:02:36 AM »
I think to most it has been passed down...
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Offline Rob Poelking

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 09:59:59 PM »
I got permission from the author to post this here. There were a couple changes he recommended and you'll see the notes in brackets []. Also, I asked why the use of ethanol (booze) rather than isoprpyl (rubbing alcohol). He responded that either would work equally well. Isopropyl is less expensive and I'd perfer to drink my booze not rub it on my skin. It makes sense that the original recipes called for some type of wine or distilled spirit as that is what they had available in that time. Isopropyl is used in the medical world to day so it makes sense to use that.

Anyway...enough of my chattering. Here are some recipes I found.

Dit Da Jow by Dr. John Crescione

Dit Da Jow (Cantonese) or Tieh Ta Chiao (Mandarin) means "Hit and Fall Wine" (or liniment). Jow, as it is commonly referred to, can be broken down into two types: Han Dit Da Jow (cold hit medicine) and Rei Dit Da Jow (hot hit medicine).
Hot Jow is actually heated for situations that require a lot of circulation, blood flow and lymphatic drainage into an area. Cold Jow is used as an all-purpose, when in doubt and after the fact, injury liniment. Its properties are similar to hot Jow except:
   ‚Ä¢   it's not heated
   ‚Ä¢   the herbs used are different
   ‚Ä¢   to promote the breakup of stagnant blood, lymph and energy circulation
Both types are rubbed into the skin before and after a workout for best results. It should be noted that one of the secrets of the magical Jow formula is in the rubbing. Remember way back as a kid, when you got a cold and Mom or Grandma would come in and rub you down with alcohol or Vicks, the secret was in the rub. Soft tissue manipulation alone will promote many of the qualities without the Jow, though the medicine speeds up the healing time and prevents improper drainage and stagnation problems. While we are on the subject of rubbing, Tiger Balm is the oriental version of Ben Gay or Vicks. If you can't get a good Jow, or if you don't want to buy it store-bought because of the quality, or "it just has to be made fresh and official by my teacher", Tiger Balm is almost as good. If you want to make your own because you can't find it (hard to believe), here's how to do it. I'll get to the Jow recipe in a minute.
   ‚Ä¢   Take a small jar of Vaseline, a small jar of Vicks, cayenne red pepper (it's somewhere in the kitchen on your spice rack) and either dried red chilli peppers (most gourmet stores have them) or red chilli peppers that have already been bottled.
   ‚Ä¢   Put the Vaseline in a pot and melt it on the stove at low heat.
   ‚Ä¢   Add two or three tablespoons of Vicks--depending on how smelly and mentholly you want it--until that also is melted.
   ‚Ä¢   Grind up the red pepper until it's a powder, mix it with the cayenne pepper and add to the melted Vaseline.
   ‚Ä¢   While in its liquid state, repour it back into a jar and let cool. 
I did not mention the quantities of either the cayenne pepper or the chilli pepper because that will be up to you based on the desired strength of your compound. If you use a small jar of Vaseline and you want it hot, use two tablespoons of both peppers finely ground and stirred into the compound. When it cools it will be a pink to red color. You've just made Red Tiger Balm--congratulations!
Now back to the Jow--the recipe that I will give you is a simple one that uses common Chinese herbs that are for the most part easy to get in herb catalogs or herbal stores if you have a Chinatown or wholistic community near you.
(these are the botanical names and Chinese names) 1 oz.=30 grams 
   ‚Ä¢   1 bottle of strong vodka, gin or Chinese rice wine
   ‚Ä¢   Artemesia (Liu ji nu) - 5g
   ‚Ä¢   Borneol (Bingpian) - 1g
   ‚Ä¢   Carthamus (Honghua) - 5g
   ‚Ä¢   Catechu (Ercha) - 8g
   ‚Ä¢   Cinnabar (Zhusha) - 5g 
   ‚Ä¢   Cirsium (DaJi) - 1g 
   ‚Ä¢   Dragon's Blood (Xuejie) - 30g 
   ‚Ä¢   Mastic (Ruxiang) - 5g 
   ‚Ä¢   Musk (Shexiang) - 1g 
   ‚Ä¢   Myrrh (Moyao) - 5g 
   ‚Ä¢   Pinellia (ShengBanXia) - 5g 
   ‚Ä¢   [Authors note: you may omit cinnabar and musk and replace with equal amounts of Frankincense]
Take all ingredients and grind into a fine powder, add the whole bottle of vodka or gin. Mix well and rub into the injured area. The beauty of this particular recipe is that you don't have to bury it for 35 days to two months before you can use it. Classically when you made Jow it had to be buried underground for an extended period of time before it was ready to be used. There was no magical/mystical reasoning behind it. Sunlight and heat oxidize the herbs and change the chemical properties so, keeping in mind it's around the year 1700, where are you going to store this stuff when you need a dark cool dry place? And what do you use to ferment and age your herbal combination to get the most out of your ingredients-- alcohol. That's why a 100-year old Scotch Whiskey is supposed to be so good.
If you desire to have the herbs soak, pour the combination into a dark glass container and place it in a closet or cupboard where it shouldn't get too hot, and periodically shake the liniment once or twice a week. You should note that if you do this the traditional way then the herbs are loosely ground, and not into a powder. And the longer they sit in the bottle the stronger the Jow becomes. This is the reason many Kung Fu practitioner's who are traditionally or classically trained will not buy store bought Jow, but prefer to make our own. The store bought Jow never has any of the herbs at the bottom of the bottle that they come in. Also some Jow is sold in plastic bottles, and over time the plastic starts to break down into the herbal formula. And some Jow is even sold in clear bottles with no way to know how long it's been in there. A decent Jow should look like soy sauce in color and have a slight alcohol, medicinal smell. Please note this Jow recipe may not be as dark or "smelly" due to the quality of herbs, time left to soak before usage, cooking properties of some of the herbs, combinations of the specific herbs or the specific usage properties. This is a "fast" formula, it's original intent is to be made now to use now, not in a month or two.
It is important that Jow not be rubbed into open wounds, taken internally or gotten in the eyes. If it's an old chronic injury the rubbing technique is usually slow and deep, if it's relatively new then it's a light, quick type of rubbing. Secondly, learn as much as you can about herbs, both American and Chinese. 

Another Jow recipe:
   ‚Ä¢   Arnica blossoms (anti-inflamatory, pain relief)
   ‚Ä¢   Comfrey (anti-inflamatory, pain relief)
   ‚Ä¢   Blessed Thistle (blood purifier)
   ‚Ä¢   Goldenseal root (antibiotic, wound healing)
   ‚Ä¢   Ginger root (circulation, wound healing, pain relief)
   ‚Ä¢   Myrrh (antiseptic, circulation, wound healing)
   ‚Ä¢   Sasparilla root (blood purifier)
   ‚Ä¢   Witch Hazel (anti-inflamatory, pain relief)
Use equal proportions of all the items listed, by weight. You can meaure them out on a small kitchen scale.
Grind the herbs in a mortar & pestle (or electric grinder) and place them in a glass jar. Add 80 or 90 proof grain alcohol (I use vodka); use 4 ounces of dried herbs to one pint of alcohol base (or equivalent proportions). Seal the jar tightly. Allow the infusion to work for two weeks; once or twice a day, swirl the liquid gently through the herbal mash. After two weeks, strain off the liquid and discard the herbal residue; pour into smaller glass containers.
This tincture can be applied as is to swollen or bruised areas, or can be mixed with a thickener (like lanolin or safflower oil) and a hardener (like beeswax) to make an ointment. This formulation has also been effective in the treatment of arthritis, for pain relief and restoration of range of motion.
All Purpose Jow
   ‚Ä¢   Alcohol (Vodka, Gin, Brandy - even Rubbing Alcohol) 1 or 2 quarts
   ‚Ä¢   Breadstraw[sic corrected Bedstraw]  
   ‚Ä¢   Calendula (Marigold)
   ‚Ä¢   Camomile 
   ‚Ä¢   Comfrey (if you can still get it - you may have to grow your own if you want to add this) 
   ‚Ä¢   Common Club Moss 
   ‚Ä¢   Cow slip [or marsh marigold]
   ‚Ä¢   Dandelion 
   ‚Ä¢   Shepherd's Purse 
   ‚Ä¢   Stinging Nettle [Authors note: any nettle will work]
   ‚Ä¢   St. John's Wort 
   ‚Ä¢   Wintergreen oil (Many times this comes together with rubbing alcohol, either way is fine - obviously if you're going to use rubbing alcohol you won't need the vodka, gin, etc. Remember, boxers and other athletes have been using it for hundreds of years and they get abused a lot more on a daily basis than most of us.) 
Use 1 oz. of each herb, pour the alcohol into a glass jar (or back into the alcohol bottle - all the herbs should have been ground or are small enough to funnel in). Leave it in a dark place for a week, shaking occasionally and you're ready to roll (figuratively speaking, no pun intended). True, the longer it keeps the better it will be, but you can use it in about an hour or two if necessary.
Iron Palm Jow
Use the above formula but you add the following: 
   ‚Ä¢   Horestail [horsetail?] 
   ‚Ä¢   Mallow 
   ‚Ä¢   Cow parsnip 
   ‚Ä¢   Fenugreek 
   ‚Ä¢   Walnut 
   ‚Ä¢   Yellow Dead Nettle  [Authors note: any nettle will work]


« Last Edit: March 03, 2008, 10:13:37 PM by Rob Poelking »
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Offline maria alovert

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2008, 01:31:14 PM »
I just had the bone bruise from hell and wished I'd had some dit da jow when it had started. Arnica flower oil does work well also, but jow is better , I believe.

 Is there anyplace to order the herbs for this combination- I know it's not really supposed to be easily available, family secrets and all that, but surely someone's figured out a modern mail-order source for the herbs.

As for ethanol (vodka, everclear, etc) versus isopropyl, isopropyl is a bit toxic if used topically all the time- alcohols other than ethanol can be toxic if too much is absorbed through the skin. I've heard of problems with it when sports people used rubbing alcohol as a cooling rub in the past (dumb idea, but I've heard of it)

Some people tend to use jow daily, so the idea of isopropyl seems a tiny bit riskier than ethanol to me.  Also, not everything that dissolves in ethanol will also dissolve in isopropyl (and vice versa), which is important from the perspective of how this recipe works- you're using the alcohol to extract active constituents from the plant matter and then help those constituents to absorb into your bloodstream through the skin, so using a traditional ethanol seems like it would work better if that's what the traditionalists discovered works.

Generally, when making herbal liniments, tinctures, and other extracts, you use something 'impure' such as vodka (which contains both ethanol and water), because the ethanol dissolves certain active ingredients of the herbs while the water in the vodka dissolves others. not all plant-based chemicals dissolve in both alcohol and water.

The other thing the alcohol does is act as a preservative. Water does not. So,  brandy and other strong alcohol-water distilled 'drinks' work fine as long as they have enough alcohol to act as a preservative. Back in the day in China , they might have used wine, which is very high in water, due to poverty or unavailability of distilled alcohol, but distilled alcohols will be better from a preservative standpoint, and most distilled alcohols made for drinking still have enough water to pick up the water-solubles in the herbs).

« Last Edit: June 27, 2008, 01:38:40 PM by maria alovert »
Maria Alovert
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Offline Rob Poelking

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2008, 06:46:27 AM »
While I think you can find all these herbs available on the internet you should be able to find it locally as well especially if you're on the west coast. I'm in Ohio and had no problem but the trick was not to look for herbs but rather an acupuncturist. I found that the acupuncturist also sold the herbs I needed for my recipe.
Rob Poelking, Black Belt, Original Method
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Offline gxnapasteve

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2008, 11:19:15 PM »
I go to Wing Hop on  764 clay st in sfchinatown{right above the parking garage on kearny}. the herbalists are very helpful there. been going for 4 years now.. for the dit da jow, we mix the zheng gu sui with the jow ball.. let it sit for a while..       Im pretty sure that is what Sifu does when he mixes it??  they seem to have changed the formula with the jow balls, its not as strong anymore.

   they have better anyways.. Its in a clear bottle called white flower, and also the millineum in the blue box and its a blue liquid with a root in it..    lots more fire than the dit da jow..
Steve Nefas Guangxi School Of Martial Arts Tyrrell Academy.

Offline dragonflysamaurii

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2008, 10:29:15 PM »
As a student of the late GM loren I can honestly tell you that his dit dah jjow is a secret family recipe that we are piecing together in his passing as we speek, I will keep you in touch as it seems I am the new director of this assembly and function. aloha
sarah
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Offline maria alovert

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2009, 10:12:10 AM »
I just started a jug of dit da jow- I got the herbs from a friend, who had the Oakland CA Chinatown herbalist that we go to, put the formula together based on his martial arts teacher's formula.

Interestingly, one of the ingredients in this formula is a handful of big black beetles! I creeped out my roommates nice and good with this.

Maria Alovert
student under Sifu Jason Goldsmith, WHKD, Chapel Hill NC

Offline Sifu Jim

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2009, 10:59:19 AM »
Here is a link i found to a place where you can buy kits and pre-made stuff.

https://www.coilingdragon.com/store/

I have used some of their pre-made dit da jow and can vouch for it.

I had planter fasciitis for months and could hardly walk on it nothing worked and after using there "Tiger exits the forest" two days later the pain was gone and hasn't returned.

My friend had the same problem i gave him a little jow and it worked for him as well.

It's worth a try.
James Smith
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inactive (for now)

Offline maria alovert

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 05:20:20 PM »
Does anyone have an opinion on this formula that this shop in Oregon is selling?"

http://www.ancientway.com/Pages/MartialArtsFormulas.html

Here's what their store website says about it:
This is a compliation of many Jow formulas with the endangered species and toxic heavy metals taken out. It is a good general purpose Jow for Iron Palm, bruise healing, pain reducing, and circulation enhancing. Instructions are posted for 2 ways of making 1 gallon of the Jow.

For making approximately 1 gallon

Fu Zi--30 gm (1 oz. is 28 gm. For convenience, we say 30 gm)
Ban Xia--30 gm
Di Gu Pi--60 gm
Bai Bu--60 gm
Long Gu--30 gm (optional--this is heat-treated cow bone (dragon bone))
Tian Nan Xing--30 gm
Hong Hua--30 gm
She Chuang Zi--30 gm
Chuan Xiong--30 gm
San Qi--15 gm
Xue Jie--30 gm
Ru Xiang--30 gm
Mo Yao--30 gm
Ding Xiang--30 gm
Dang Gui--30 gm
Da Huang--15 gm
Add separately after cooking:
Camphor/Borneol Crystals--15 gm
Menthol Crystals--15 gm


The simple quick method for making this is to bring the herbs to a rolling boil in 1/2 gallon of water, simmer for 30 minutes (covered), cool, add 1/2 gallon of 95% alcohol (Everclear, grain alcohol) into a large glass jar with the herbs (or split it into 2-4 smaller glass containers), shake, and leave it on a dark shelf (or bury it in the earth) for as long as you're willing--from 1 week to 2 months. Then strain, squeeze, and bottle for use.


The slower method:
Put the herbs, preferrably powdered, into 1-4 different glass containers (we like quart glass jars) and cover with a 30-50% alcohol (vodka, Everclear/water mix, distilled rice wine, or sake/vodka/grain alcohol mix). Put it on a dark shelf or bury it, leave it for 6-12 months. Strain off the alcohol and press the herbs in a muslin bag or pillowcase to get all of the liquid possible out, then bottle the Jow for use.

These are only 2 of many possibilities for preparing Jow. If you have a favorite method or recipe you'd like to share, please send it in and I'll post it for other interested martial artists.




Maria Alovert
student under Sifu Jason Goldsmith, WHKD, Chapel Hill NC

Tim Vargas

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 09:50:29 PM »
Hi Maria,

On my search for some Dit da Jow, I came across several recipes, ALL of them different.    Looking at the prices for the link you posted, they seem reasonable for a product you have never tried.   As what has been told to me by an herbalist in Oakland, CA. is that not all recipes work on people the same, in fact, sometimes people are allergic to some of the herbs contained in the Jow.  I also found a person who sells several Jows, the company is called "Plum Dragon" www.plumdragonherbs.com/ , and bought a small bottle to use on my injuries.    Although I did buy a small bottle, I never got to use it, so I cannot tell you how good it is.  All I can say is that after doing all my research and requesting Jow from martial artists, it was a perfect STRANGER who ended up giving me some JOW from his doctor (herbalist), and didnt even charge me, but willingly gave from the kindness of his heart.  I am not sure of the hebs used, but can say that my injuries are healed  ;D

Good luck on your quest.


Tim

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2010, 11:07:49 PM »
I have used the Plum Dragon company's Dit, and I have been pretty happy with it.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
5th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
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Offline punisher73

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Re: RECIPE PLEASE
« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2010, 07:11:16 AM »
Here is a link i found to a place where you can buy kits and pre-made stuff.

https://www.coilingdragon.com/store/

I have used some of their pre-made dit da jow and can vouch for it.

I had planter fasciitis for months and could hardly walk on it nothing worked and after using there "Tiger exits the forest" two days later the pain was gone and hasn't returned.

My friend had the same problem i gave him a little jow and it worked for him as well.

It's worth a try.

I have used their stuff as well.  The person who runs the company, Dale Dugas, is very friendly and will answer your questions about what jow you need for your training.  He has jows that are good for makiwara training and arm conditioning and then more general injury jows as well.  Just tell him your need and he will tell you which one to get.

They also sell the herb kits that you mix yourself at home.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 07:13:34 AM by punisher73 »
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