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Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo

Author Topic: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo  (Read 13330 times)

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2006, 06:06:34 AM »
I use those also big Dean.......sometimes the Bo is just.......BO.......NOOOOOOOOOO........

till you stop striking.....


BONO

BO..

BO........NOOOOOOOOOOO

I get it......   Not fair.... Your name fits in KajukenBO......

What's next? KajukenBONO??       :o

I need more sleep....    :)

O.K.... Time to get the thread back on track.... The only point sparring we do anymore is with the 7 - 12 year olds. In the adult classes, we box and kickbox. IMHO I just feel that boxing provides a better way of developing your striking, and teaches a better way of dealing with a striker. With just a little tweaking all the boxing covers, and defense will work with no gloves on the street.. Also from the boxing structure, you can fire any other hand technique, ( fingerjabs, palms, elbows, backnuckles, hammerfists ) whatever..

We use the boxing structure, then think of our arms like dremel tools.... You can screw on a fist if you want to punch, or a palm, or whatever you need to fit the situation.. But...... you do it from a common structure and delivery system.

I took Joe Lewis's idea of using a progressing series of combinations and using them as belt requirements.. I teach 2 or 3 punch / kick combos that are required for each rank.. Sort of a mini form that helps them develop real functional skills..

Also for any of you who may not have tried the boxing vs point fighting contest, take a look at the WKA brown belt video..
Professor Tarango demonstrates very well the benefits of boxing / kickboxing over point fighting....

Keep up the hard training.

Dean.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 07:41:05 AM by Dean Goldade »
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2006, 09:27:58 AM »
That's why I'm always training..... ::)
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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #17 on: July 19, 2006, 02:36:15 PM »
     Back in the early days of our art, I believe the "bo" part of kajukenbo was for "Chinese boxing",
or "kung fu". If you look up the definition of kung fu, you will find some rather long articles explaining
the meaning of it kung fu; "boxing" (not western) appears in the definition as well.
     As for American or western boxing, many of us incorporate it into our kajukenbo system(s). We
do in GM Dela Cruz' Chuan Fa school. I think boxing is his favorite, above all the other punches, kicks,
takedowns, etc. Nearly every training session includes the 7 basic boxing punches; at least during the
warm-up drills. All of us have to bring our boxing gloves to every training session. It has really enhanced my hard-style kenpo skills. Boxing with "Sifu" is definitely an experience. Just notice the gleam in his eyes as he lands a nice hook up against the side of your head. Enlightening!
     Anyone who doesn't think American boxing is a martial art should go a few rounds with a boxer
sometime. Boxing is good stuff to add to any style. Just look what the MMA guys are doing now;
lots of striking/boxing, trying to end the match before it goes to the mat.
     

Offline Dean Goldade

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #18 on: July 19, 2006, 03:12:24 PM »
        Anyone who doesn't think American boxing is a martial art should go a few rounds with a boxer
sometime. Boxing is good stuff to add to any style. Just look what the MMA guys are doing now;
lots of striking/boxing, trying to end the match before it goes to the mat.
     


Amen Brother....

Anyone who has done some ring time, and felt the value of boxing usually adds it to their program in 1 way or another.

Keep up the hard training.

Dean.
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Offline Steve

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2006, 09:05:02 PM »


     So from what U said the Bo of Kajukenbo is just the Chinese boxing (kung fu)....in the old timer no boxing had be part of the kajukenbo Bo....

    Even if the old timer was some Western boxing guys ... like Marino Tiwanak (Cha 3 Kenpo) and others....

   Just a question .....

  Steeve
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Offline John Bishop

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2006, 11:07:28 PM »


     So from what U said the Bo of Kajukenbo is just the Chinese boxing (kung fu)....in the old timer no boxing had be part of the kajukenbo Bo....

    Even if the old timer was some Western boxing guys ... like Marino Tiwanak (Cha 3 Kenpo) and others....

   Just a question .....

  Steeve

Sijo, Frank Ordanez, Joe Holck, and Peter Choo , were all boxers.  So yes, there is a strong influence of western boxing in Kajukenbo.   It's in the footwork.  It's in the "Fighting Stance" we use.  A lot of our defenses are done against a boxers type attack, like hook punches, jab and punches.  And a lot of our offensive techniques are influenced by western boxing too.  At least in the "original method".
 
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Offline Steve

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2006, 11:42:06 PM »

Thank Prof Bishop for ur answers

   I agree all the punch counter and the alphabet are again boxer type of punch in the emperado method....and all our offensive are yes japenese and chinese influenced but also boxing....a reverse punch or a right cross its the same with some variations in body structure but when its the time to use it ...no thinking about it ....if U thing its too late...

  Steeve
 
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Offline KajuJKDFighter

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2006, 11:43:09 AM »
I think those two punches are apples and oranges.  If I'm in a street fight and a guy loads his punch to his hip to fight me, I know that punch is easy to see coming and also his head is open on that side.
    I'm also more worried about the guy who goes into a standard boxing stance, I figure he has been hit before, where a reverse, he may just be a forms guy.  For the most part body position is different in every way during those two punches.
    Unless we can call cars all the same except a few differences.  I have a '70 Sedan Deville, '71 Formula Firebird and a '90 Corvette.  All have tires and seats, all go down the road.....well most times.  One weighs 5000 lbs hold 6 people easy., ones fiberglass and the top comes off, one is as loud as a Nascar race and makes your teeth shake, all different, very different,....well except they all for the most part get lousy mileage....Make sense?
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Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2006, 01:46:31 PM »
Steve,
Keep in mind, there is a big difference between the original kenpo-karate version of Kajukenbo and the later Ch'uan fa version. Originally, the "BO" better represented western boxing. The attacker used western boxing movements to attack. Boxing footwork was used for stances, as well as the standard four boxing punches (Jab, cross, hook and uppercut) within the techniques.

As Sijo, Al Dela Cruz and Al Dacascos adapted the Nothern and Southern styles of gung fu to Kajukenbo in the late 50s and early 60s, the "BO" better represented Chinese Boxing as Kajukenbo evolved.

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Offline Bautista's

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2006, 10:53:28 PM »
"BO" is the flavor of chinese and American boxing
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Offline Steve

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2006, 06:29:18 PM »


 Thank to urs Sigung ,prof and GM...

   
 Sigung Bono

   I never meet a street fighter who put his fist to the hip ...like u said.(.I know that punch is easy to see coming and also his head is open on that side.)

.I agree this two punch are apple and orange but the two are fruits ;) The mechanist is different but the trajectory are the same ....the hip rotation are the same ...the power came from the rear leg for the two....punch came  from the ground

  Prof Mitch

   Its good what u said the bo of the original and the chuan fa... and probably some chuan fa forget the Boxing...I thing the western boxing are in the two branch...since the techniques of chuan fa are from the original with their kung fu flavour.....the bo for chinese boxing are more for the forms add to the system and more soft expression of the system of Kajukenbo just my opinion...

  GM Bautista

    All my respect...Mahalo and Aloha


  Steeve

   
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Offline Serene

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2006, 03:58:55 PM »
In my training - we were taught that the reverse a.k.a. kenpo punch shot from the hip -

The combo was taught to me as the lead was a back knuckle followed up w/the kenpo punch.

In boxing there are 5 punches: jab, straight, hook, uppercut and an overhand. 

Where did Bo come from? In the begining it was referenced to Gung fu/Chinese boxing.  Now it has grown and evolved into what is known today as traditonal boxing. I am speaking of my school where that movement has occured. We are of the hard style kajukenboist. After our students receive there blacks we show them chuan fa which is our soft style of kaju. 

There is also soft style kajukenboist for them the bo might represent chuan fa (open hand) flowing type movement which are very similar to movements of the boxer.   

For us the alphabets, punch techs, grabs w/punches and multiple attackers are those against boxers. The Chuan fa techs that I have seen are also attacks from a boxer.

Back in those days the boxing was the way within the polynesian cultures. Whether you lived in the mainland or the islands to be a boxer was big. I also believe before one takes out an enemy you must know your enemy. So boxing was a big part of kaju since it was those scrapping boxers they were wanting to take out.

Soifua,

p.s. I had to write in the post - I'm watching Andre Ward the Gold Olympic Champion spar some pro fighters. Good stuff - someone just got knocked out of the ring. Ouch! ;)


Sifu Serene Terrazas
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Terrazas Kajukenbo
American Canyon, Ca.

Offline Mitch Powell

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2006, 08:32:56 PM »
Serene brought up a point that should be discussed further. It explains a lot about how Kajukenbo got to be Kajukenbo. She talked about the culture of the island at the time Sijo and the others put this art together. This has been discussed on other threads, but can be looked at again. 

At the time Kajukenbo was created boxing and judo were very popular. Not just on the island, but around the states as well. Both were being taught in the military, at boys and girls clubs, and even in some schools. Not just to adults, but to kids as well.
Both are still very popular today.

Since the attacker of Sijo's day may have some boxing or judo knowledge, Sijo knew he had to be able to defeat each type of attacker. When putting together the techniques for Kajukenbo, he took into account what he would face on the street. Not just the street hoodlum, but the guy who just might have some good boxing or judo skills.

The Chinese arts were developed much in the same manner--to defend against what types of attacks they were faced with at the time and place the art was created. Some of those arts are very old. So old in fact that techniques within them were used to defeat an attacker swinging a sword while mounted on a horse.

Because Kajukenbo is not that old, it offers self defense against the types of attacks we still face today-grabbing you, punching at you, using a knife, club or attacking you with a buddy. What we face today is much like what he faced in Hawaii in the 40s and 50s.

As each art is created, it is but an expression of the place and time created, and the teacher's ability to understand the concepts of combat.



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Offline Bautista's

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Re: Boxing (american )in Kajukenbo
« Reply #28 on: December 25, 2006, 02:24:38 AM »
According to a 1992 video tape of Sijo Emperado, Joe Holck, and Peter Choo  on the island of Kuaui at the home of Jimie Bisquez at an Emerado Kajukenbo Association (EKA) seminar, it was said as the three sat and told the story of how the word KAJUKENBO came about. These words came from Peter Choo that the:
KA stands for Karate
JU stands for Judo & jujitsu
KEN stands for kenpo
BO stands for western american boxing.

There are only 4 tapes in exsistance and is controlled by Grandmaster Vince Black.
This is what inspired KAJUKENBO in 1947
Emil Bautista
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