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General (Note: THERE ARE OTHER "EVENT", "NEWS", "DISCUSSION", "BLACK BELT", and "SENIOR BLACK BELT" SECTIONS AVAILABLE TO MEMBERS) => News => Topic started by: John Bishop on December 20, 2011, 09:46:40 PM

Title: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on December 20, 2011, 09:46:40 PM
Whether your a white belt or a grandmaster vote on how you feel about the issues in this poll.  There's 5 issues, so you are allowed 5 votes for 1 answer to each.
No comments are necessary, unless you want to make some.  This poll is anonymous, so don't worry about receiving any criticism for expressing your views.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: KajuJKDFighter on December 21, 2011, 10:48:48 AM
Prof John  I don't understand what you are asking here, check boxes if we agree?
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on December 21, 2011, 01:34:11 PM
Prof John  I don't understand what you are asking here, check boxes if we agree?

Yes, there is 2 choices for each of the 5 issues.  Check the box of the one you agree with. Or, if you don't have a opinion or care about one of the issues, leave that one blank.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on December 22, 2011, 01:01:22 PM
Please vote
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on December 23, 2011, 11:47:15 AM
BTT
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on December 27, 2011, 12:06:07 AM
BTT
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on January 02, 2012, 01:33:54 PM
BTT
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 03, 2012, 07:52:31 PM
There was only one Sijo in Kajukenbo: Emperado  77 (21.1%)
I wouldn't mind a senior Kajukenbo practitioner using the title Sijo  3 (0.8%)

Only one. Nothing else to add to that.

Only the 5 founder's should be 10th degree red/black belts  44 (12.1%)
I think it's OK for other senior Kajukenbo practitioners to be ranked at 10th degree red/black belt  21 (5.8%)

Only the founders should be tenth, though I have no issue with other titles indicating seniority for 9th degrees such as "SGM" or "GGM"

I don't think black belts from other systems should be cross ranked into Kajukenbo  66 (18.1%)
It's OK to cross rank black belts from other systems into Kajukenbo  7 (1.9%)

Only if I can be cross-ranked into the Trump family and inherit his fortune like the rst of his kids.

I don't think a instructor should promote another instructor's black belt students  30 (8.2%)
I think it's OK for a instructor to promote another instructor's black belt student, if the black belt has been with the new instructor for at least a year  45 (12.3%)

I think the old policy is best: get permission from the former instructor and then wait two years to promote.


I feel there should be set standards for 8th and 9th degrees, similar to the one's set by the K.S.D.I. B.O.A.  54 (14.8%)
I think a instructor or organization should promote whoever they want to 8th and 9th degree  18 (4.9%)

It would be nice to see, but I doubt it will happen.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 03, 2012, 08:42:51 PM
Inst a little un-democratic to spread around your opinion about a voting issue, just in the middle of a votation process? (No matter all who have been in the cafe for a while do knows Danjo's opinions already). Isnt an atempt to pressure the votes of the undecided ones? I think thats the reason because Prof. Bishop said "No comments are necessary" above...
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 03, 2012, 09:13:50 PM
Inst a little un-democratic to spread around your opinion about a voting issue, just in the middle of a votation process? (No matter all who have been in the cafe for a while do knows Danjo's opinions already). Isnt an atempt to pressure the votes of the undecided ones? I think thats the reason because Prof. Bishop said "No comments are necessary" above...

Be nice if you could quote accurately and not twist the meaning "No comments are necessary, unless you want to make some. " I WANTED to make some. I don't think people are so feable-minded that my comments will influence them as you seem to think.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 12:35:34 AM
It's so evident what u "wanted" that I just didnt put the whole quote. And I think u should add some psychology and communication theory to your martial art career...

Im not starting an argument, anyway. Thats the reason I posted before in the form of a couple of questions, cuz im expressing a doubt about the "democratic or undemocratic" pertinence of your intervention. Democracy is about a fair and free dialog, with no coercion, and yelling (or repeating yourself, in the form of a slogan) in a room of silent people that is thinking in making a right choice, seems a kind of coercion to me.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 04, 2012, 02:58:18 AM
It's so evident what u "wanted" that I just didnt put the whole quote. And I think u should add some psychology and communication theory to your martial art career...

Im not starting an argument, anyway. Thats the reason I posted before in the form of a couple of questions, cuz im expressing a doubt about the "democratic or undemocratic" pertinence of your intervention. Democracy is about a fair and free dialog, with no coercion, and yelling (or repeating yourself, in the form of a slogan) in a room of silent people that is thinking in making a right choice, seems a kind of coercion to me.

First off, the part about not having to comment was for the benefit of those that wanted to vote but didn't want others to know how they voted. It wasn't to prevent anyone from starting a discussion about the survey. Second, its not "undemocratic" unless I'm somehow preventing others from voting. Given that their votes are anonymous, there is no way for me to do that. Third, you have a very strange way of arguing a point. If you disagree with my opinions, then put up your own rather than attack me for posting mine. Do you really tink that if I don't say I think people should only be promoted by their teachers that that sways people? Look at the poll and tell me how most are voting. I understand that not everyone agrees with me. Who cares? I get it if someone belongs to a group that is notorious for handing out rank to those they never actually taught is a bit sensitive about people voicing opinions about these things, but then that's their problem, not mine. Should no one ever speak their mind for fear of being the first one in an empty room to do so? If Prof. Bishop had said "don't start a discussion, just vote" then I wouldn't have posted anything (especially since he's my teacher), but the option was there "if one wanted to" so .....
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Sifu Sin Bin on January 04, 2012, 09:15:33 AM
It is not a vote it is a poll. An opinion poll. Nothing undemocratic about anything Dan did.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 04, 2012, 10:43:22 AM
It is not a vote it is a poll. An opinion poll. Nothing undemocratic about anything Dan did.

Thanks Professor. Good point: no one is being elected, nor is policy being decided here.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 11:03:00 AM

First off, the part about not having to comment was for the benefit of those that wanted to vote but didn't want others to know how they voted. It wasn't to prevent anyone from starting a discussion about the survey. Second, its not "undemocratic" unless I'm somehow preventing others from voting. Given that their votes are anonymous, there is no way for me to do that. Third, you have a very strange way of arguing a point. If you disagree with my opinions, then put up your own rather than attack me for posting mine. Do you really tink that if I don't say I think people should only be promoted by their teachers that that sways people? Look at the poll and tell me how most are voting. I understand that not everyone agrees with me. Who cares? I get it if someone belongs to a group that is notorious for handing out rank to those they never actually taught is a bit sensitive about people voicing opinions about these things, but then that's their problem, not mine. Should no one ever speak their mind for fear of being the first one in an empty room to do so? If Prof. Bishop had said "don't start a discussion, just vote" then I wouldn't have posted anything (especially since he's my teacher), but the option was there "if one wanted to" so .....

First, its pretty clear we dont have the same understanding about democracy, but this isnt the place to start a discussion about it. Second, Im not ataccking u, just expressing a doubt about the ethical (political) meaning of your behaviour,  and -believe it or not- my opinions about the poll issues are pretty the same as yours... so please stop the paranoia and overreaction. It seems u didnt understand the difference between someone who ask in a fair way if someone's actions are legitimate in a fixed context, and someone  who disagree and attacks someone's opinions or person. My mistake, i thought we are all educated people.

Let me clarify this with a parable: You are in thanksgiving dinner with ur family, and a cousin starts an argument  about becoming vegan because the suffering of the turkeys in poultry ranchs, just in the moment when ur mom is choping the turkey at the table. So u ask if is appropiate to have that kind of discussion in that moment.  ┬┐Should ur cousin feel attacked because of that, since u also made ur question in a polite way? Ur family can decide if they want to keep that kind of conversation or not, just that. But if your cousin becomes mad, and elaborate a paranoid fantasy about you trying to attack his opinions and person because you maybe are associated with a wealthy and evil poultry farmer ... ┬┐who's wrong?.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 11:04:24 AM
It is not a vote it is a poll. An opinion poll. Nothing undemocratic about anything Dan did.

Thanks Professor. Good point: no one is being elected, nor is policy being decided here.

Funny, so when American Congress decides about passing a law (no one is being elected there), is not democratic at all.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 04, 2012, 11:09:32 AM
I'm sure you are trying to say something here, but for the life of me I'm not sure what it is exactly.this is a discussion forum where everyone can express their views. What could be more "democratic" than that?
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Dean Goldade on January 04, 2012, 11:16:25 AM
With all due respect... Did you even read Professor Robs post?
This is opinion based.. Why do you try to bring politics into it?

We have enough issues to work thru.. Do what you do in your yard.. We will do what we do in our yard.. Let the BS go... If you continue, we realize that you have too much time on your hands, and that is cool.. But let those that have jobs do them without your badgering.... "Badgering = Giving a hard time.

Live your life in Europe... Train with GM Garcia.... But let the idea of us following you go!!
Take care my Kaju brother
Dean.


Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: KajuJKDFighter on January 04, 2012, 11:19:34 AM
I read this twice and don't understand it....Dan gave his opinion, we can agree or not whatever...not sure why the comment about it though...I couldn't find anything offensive about it......then the turkey analogy...and I love me a good analogy, didn't make sense to me....maybe it's me ...but I had two espressos so I'm good and awake and still....maybe I need another...
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 11:57:14 AM
It's OK, in analytical philosophy we use to like doing this kind of semantic and pragmatical distinctions  just to give people something to think about it  ;D. I apologize if that (and the continous irony)  bothers some of you, that wasnt the intention. Im not also a native english speaker, so maybe that affects the way I express myself in your language.

Prof. Bono: I would like to have an espresso too, hard to find good coffee here these days, and I'm an addict.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 12:01:55 PM
With all due respect... Did you even read Professor Robs post?
This is opinion based.. Why do you try to bring politics into it?

We have enough issues to work thru.. Do what you do in your yard.. We will do what we do in our yard.. Let the BS go... If you continue, we realize that you have too much time on your hands, and that is cool.. But let those that have jobs do them without your badgering.... "Badgering = Giving a hard time.

Live your life in Europe... Train with GM Garcia.... But let the idea of us following you go!!
Take care my Kaju brother
Dean.


Dean, seems you forget about me. Im have never lived in Europe, and never trained under Garcia (that's almost an insult to me, bruddah). Read my signature, and maybe u would understand why I'm insisting in some points.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 04, 2012, 12:40:45 PM
With all due respect... Did you even read Professor Robs post?
This is opinion based.. Why do you try to bring politics into it?

We have enough issues to work thru.. Do what you do in your yard.. We will do what we do in our yard.. Let the BS go... If you continue, we realize that you have too much time on your hands, and that is cool.. But let those that have jobs do them without your badgering.... "Badgering = Giving a hard time.

Live your life in Europe... Train with GM Garcia.... But let the idea of us following you go!!
Take care my Kaju brother
Dean.


Dean, seems you forget about me. Im have never lived in Europe, and never trained under Garcia (that's almost an insult to me, bruddah). Read my signature, and maybe u would understand why I'm insisting in some points.

So how many hours have you logged in on the mat with Jason Groff then?
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: KajuJKDFighter on January 04, 2012, 01:20:30 PM
Me to....I have a double boiler machine and make my own grinding fresh and all....GT
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 01:41:24 PM
With all due respect... Did you even read Professor Robs post?
This is opinion based.. Why do you try to bring politics into it?

We have enough issues to work thru.. Do what you do in your yard.. We will do what we do in our yard.. Let the BS go... If you continue, we realize that you have too much time on your hands, and that is cool.. But let those that have jobs do them without your badgering.... "Badgering = Giving a hard time.

Live your life in Europe... Train with GM Garcia.... But let the idea of us following you go!!
Take care my Kaju brother
Dean.


Dean, seems you forget about me. Im have never lived in Europe, and never trained under Garcia (that's almost an insult to me, bruddah). Read my signature, and maybe u would understand why I'm insisting in some points.

So how many hours have you logged in on the mat with Jason Groff then?


Danjo, u keep get me wrong, bro. I was trying to remind Dean who I am (cuz seems he was confusing me with some of GM Garcia's boys),  and why i was concerned about the "democratic" stuff. I already apologize, u dont need to make it personal, and this is not the place for that anyway. If u need anything else from me, not related with the content of this topic, u always have the chance of doing via PM. If i ask something that i thought it was inappropiate (and you guys let me know that u think different), i didnt want to do something even more inappropiate by starting an negative argument. Am i being clear this time?
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: kcerda on January 04, 2012, 01:46:57 PM
Me to....I have a double boiler machine and make my own grinding fresh and all....GT

Cool, that kind of machines are a little expensive here, mostly for restaurants and fancy coffee places. (Man, there's not even a Starbucks in my city). So i save some money time to time to go to a nice place and share some macchiatos and spressos with the university coleagues....otherwise i couldnt live anymore  :-\
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Danjo on January 04, 2012, 02:09:37 PM
With all due respect... Did you even read Professor Robs post?
This is opinion based.. Why do you try to bring politics into it?

We have enough issues to work thru.. Do what you do in your yard.. We will do what we do in our yard.. Let the BS go... If you continue, we realize that you have too much time on your hands, and that is cool.. But let those that have jobs do them without your badgering.... "Badgering = Giving a hard time.

Live your life in Europe... Train with GM Garcia.... But let the idea of us following you go!!
Take care my Kaju brother
Dean.


Dean, seems you forget about me. Im have never lived in Europe, and never trained under Garcia (that's almost an insult to me, bruddah). Read my signature, and maybe u would understand why I'm insisting in some points.

So how many hours have you logged in on the mat with Jason Groff then?


Danjo, u keep get me wrong, bro. I was trying to remind Dean who I am (cuz seems he was confusing me with some of GM Garcia's boys),  and why i was concerned about the "democratic" stuff. I already apologize, u dont need to make it personal, and this is not the place for that anyway. If u need anything else from me, not related with the content of this topic, u always have the chance of doing via PM. If i ask something that i thought it was inappropiate (and you guys let me know that u think different), i didnt want to do something even more inappropiate by starting an negative argument. Am i being clear this time?

Fair enough.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: KajuJKDFighter on January 04, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Yup they are but......well they are.....work great though.....it's all part of the training....(trying to rationalize it....)
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: JessieEscobedo on January 04, 2012, 09:33:04 PM
I'm under GM Garcia.  ::)
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Aloha Aina on January 08, 2012, 04:44:30 AM
Me too!!! ;)
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Sifu Sin Bin on February 08, 2014, 02:04:13 PM
There was only one Sijo in Kajukenbo: Emperado

104 (21.7%)I wouldn't mind a senior Kajukenbo practitioner using the title Sijo

4 (0.8%)Only the 5 founder's should be 10th degree red/black belts

60 (12.5%)I think it's OK for other senior Kajukenbo practitioners to be ranked at 10th degree red/black belt

27 (5.6%)I don't think black belts from other systems should be cross ranked into Kajukenbo

87 (18.2%)It's OK to cross rank black belts from other systems into Kajukenbo

9 (1.9%)I don't think a instructor should promote another instructor's black belt students

42 (8.8%)I think it's OK for a instructor to promote another instructor's black belt student, if the black belt has been with the new instructor for at least a year

55 (11.5%)I feel there should be set standards for 8th and 9th degrees, similar to the one's set by the K.S.D.I. B.O.A.

70 (14.6%)I think a instructor or organization should promote whoever they want to 8th and 9th degree

21 (4.4%)
Total Members Voted: 24
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Ghost Rider on February 09, 2014, 02:42:26 PM
So meanwhile can we get back to the opinion poll or what?
Or do we continue with he said she said and my teacher is.
AND MY POINT IS, that?s not what this post is about.
Just another post being hijacked, that?s why people hesitate to post here.
Lets keep it clean and stay on course.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Dave Jones on February 10, 2014, 08:22:55 AM
I would have agreed with "I feel there should be set standards for 8th and 9th degrees"  but you lost me at "similar to the one's set by the K.S.D.I. B.O.A."
I genuinely do not know what that is supposed to imply.

Also, "I think it's OK for a instructor to promote another instructor's black belt student, if the black belt has been with the new instructor for at least a year"
Why the arbitrary year?  Why not 6 months or 2 years? or 40 mat hours? 

Knowing an instructor and meeting him for coffee once every month or so does not usually make you better-trained.

It seems like this poll is skewed somewhat by the qualifiers.  It is as if the poll was looking for a specific outcome.  Just my opinion.
Then again, I guess I am responding long after it was created so I am probably out of the loop.
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: John Bishop on February 10, 2014, 12:36:21 PM
The poll basically covered topics discussed at the first Unity Meeting in Fresno, Ca.  It was meant to get the opinions of those who were unable to attend that meeting. 
Title: Re: Kajukenbo Issues - How do you feel?
Post by: Dave Jones on February 10, 2014, 02:17:11 PM
Ah, that makes more sense.


Thank you sir.