Author Topic: Forms in WHKD  (Read 5951 times)

InvisibleFist

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Forms in WHKD
« on: March 09, 2004, 05:00:21 PM »
I'm interested in what forms are part of WHKD and where they came from.  Anybody know?  

I trained in Mo Duk Pai, which is an offshoot of WHKD.  Our forms are:

Lim Po  (Northern Shaolin)
Pak Si Lum Six (Northern Shaolin form #6)
Sui Wan  (Not sure where this came from)
Si Lum Pai (This I beleive is a Southern Shaolin form...it looks kind of like Hung Gar to me.)

We also had three non-traditional forms, which were added by Sigung King.  These are:

Mo Yet Do (first martial form)
Mo Yi Do (second martial form)
Mo Sam Do (third martial form)



Offline John Bishop

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Re:Forms in WHKD
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2004, 05:25:13 PM »
I emailed your post to Prof. Dacascos.  So hopefully you'll get a answer from the founder of the Won Hop Kuen Do branch.
John Bishop  8th Degree-Original Method 
Under Grandmaster Gary Forbach
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"You watch, once I'm gone, all the snakes will start popping their heads up!"  Sijo Emperado

Offline cirillo

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Re:Forms in WHKD
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2004, 09:13:31 AM »
There are 10 original WHKD forms and at least 2-3 more that I am pretty sure have been added officially (such as Fire Tiger, most recently).  There are numerous additional forms that have been added over time, but not officially incorporated.

There are also at least 10-15 forms that come out of traditional Kung Fu styles.  These forms are not considered WHKD, per se, but were incorporated from Kung Fu during Sifu Dacascos' Ch'uan Fa stage.  However, WHKD students still train them and I know each of the first 4 forms that you mention (though the spelling varies a bit).

It sounds like your style is more of an offshoot of the Ch'uan Fa system than it is from WHKD, based on the forms that you list.  However, I would have to know more about who your instructor was to really answer that one.

I don't know where your other 3 forms come from.

I hope that this information helps you.  Let me know if you have any other questions.  Possibly Sifu Dacascos will also give you some information, but he has been quite busy lately.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2004, 09:15:02 AM by cirillo »
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  6th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
College Station, TX

Sifu Ben Fajardo

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Re:Forms in WHKD
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2004, 02:20:09 PM »
Where did the Kajukenbo Chuan Fa forms come from?
The only way to know is to track down Sifu Al Dacascos training and back ground. I will tell you alittle of what I know! His Gung fu training started in the 1950's under Mr. John Chong and Mr. Sullivan They where both very skilled forms and Gung-Fu practitioners. Dacascos at a young age began a quest to learn all he could about Gung fu and all the various martial arts on the Island of Hawaii where he grew up. He had a chance meeting  with a man who would go on to be his first Kajukenbo Instructor Sigung Sid Asuncion. Mr. Asuncion would introduce the young man into the Kenpo Karate/Kajukenbo systems and later to Sijo Emperado where he learned Tum Pai Gung Fu. Dacascos training at a young age made him hungry to discover and research all types of martial arts, he began a journey of studying with many instructor's on the Island such as Sifu Eugene Ho, Sifu Buck Sam Kong just to name a few.
 
In 1962 Sifu Dacascos moved from Hawaii to San Leandro California he worked hard and opened a school. While on the west coast he would meet and train with Sifu's Paul Ng, Ron Lew, Kam Yuen,Wong Jack Man. All top Kung Fu man in those day's. So, there you have it where did all the Forms come from they came from the researching effort's and the mind of Professor Al Dacascos
 
Al Dacascos forms and cross training bought soft, powerful, expressive forms into the Kajukenbo system. Adding beauty and pose to Kajukenbo practitioners to win not only in sparring, but now in the kata/forms contests at many U.S. tournaments across America.
 
Here is my Kajukenbo Original Chuan Fa section red book Outline of forms given to me in 1974 by Sifu Dacascos
 
Hau Kuen  (hard monkey form) Southern Kempo/Chuan Fa hard Style form
Fau Yip (floating leaves) Southern style Soft Sil-Lum Hand Blocking set
Limpo (continuous step) Northern Sil-Lum basic form
Siu Wan (small circle internal strength) Northern Sil-Lum Flow set
Sui Lum Pai (south hand way) Southern Sil-Lum Intermediate form
Pak Sil-Lum #6 (northern way six) Northern arial beginning flow set
Pak Sil-Lum #7 (northern way seven) Northern flow set
San Chen (internal development form) Central style
Law Hon Kuen (monk form#1) Northern advanced footwork
Fu Hak (tiger and crane) Southern Sil-Lum Hung Gar Kin
 
The Kajukenbo Chuan Fa forms where developed by the help of the following Instructor's listed below.
Hau Kuen-Dacascos, Sijo Emperado, Sid Asuncion.
Fau Yip- Dacascos, Prof. Jack Man Wong, Buck Sam Kong,.
Lim-Po- Dacascos, Paul Ng, Prof. Wong.
Siu-Wan- Dacascos, Paul Ng, Prof. Wong.
Siu-Lum-Pai- Dacascos, Buck Sam Kong, Prof. Wong.
Pak Pai #6- Dacascos, Paul Ng, Prof. Wong.
Pak Pai #7- Dacascos, Prof. Wong, Paul Ng.
Pak Pai # 8- Dacascos, Prof.Wong, Prof. Wong Ching.
Law Hon Kuen- Dacascos, Kam Yuen, Prof. Wong
Fu Huk- Dacascos, Ron Lew, Paul Ng
 
WHKD Progessive form training
added 18 hands of Lo-Han to the Kajukenbo Chuan Fa beginning/Intermediate section and the Pak Sil-Lum #8 (northern way #8) along with Fire and Tiger.

The Advanced Wun Hop Kuen Do original forms below  were created by Prof. Dacascos for Wun Hop Kuen Do section.
 
Original Wun Hop Kuen Do Forms
Jin Chong Tai Yat Pai-Nan Pai Southern short hand set
Jin Chong Tai Yee Pai- Long hand set fire/tiger
Jin Chong Tai  Sam Pai- Staff
Jin Chong Tai Say Pai- Single sword
Jin Chong Tai Ngm Pai- Spear
Jin Chong Tai Lok Pai- Double Edge straight sword
Jin Chong Tai Chat Pai- Steel whip
Jin Chong Tai Bat Pai- Long Handled Halbut- Kwon do
Jin Chong Tai Gow Pai- 3 sectional staff
Jin Chong Tai Sup Pai-Double steel whip ot double sword or single steel whip and single sword
 
I hope that this gives you a overview of what one man has accomplished with hard work and determination to sweep across America winning many Kata Grand Championships and make Wun Hop Kuen Do What it is today!
 
By Sifu Ben Fajardo
Nubreed Martial Arts Systems
 
 
 

Offline SifuLen

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2006, 03:37:19 PM »
I see this section has not been visited for some time.
I recently meet up with Grand Master Dacascos, we had a nice chat and some training & we also reviewed Sil Lum Pai #6 to see if it had changed in the 30 yrs since I was taught it!
                                                                Sibak Len Torres
                     
Sifu Leonard Torres 3rd degree
Lineage; Sijo-SGM Halbuna-SGM Conway-Me.
At least on the tree but trained with many others.
With all respect to Oahu & Mainland.

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2006, 08:47:07 PM »
Great to hear Sibak.  Sifu Al was just here in Boston with me as well--left my place on tuesday--we reviewed Nan Pai and Siu Wan.  Any difference since you learned Pak Pai #6?
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
4th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Chapel Hill/Durham NC
www.tkfmma.com

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2006, 10:57:25 PM »
Great to hear, and good luck!  I love Pak Pai #6, although I still can't decide if I like #6 or #7 better.  I hope your are enjoying the weather in Hawaii, it snowned the day after Sifu Al left here in Boston!
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
4th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Chapel Hill/Durham NC
www.tkfmma.com

Offline SifuLen

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2006, 12:06:54 PM »
Sihing Jason,
FYI, I took 2nd in the 43-49 yr old BlackBelt division on the 8th. Out of 6. Used Sil Lum Pai #6. That was my 1st competition in 18 yrs. It's nice to be back.
Sifu Art Dacoscos was there for support.
                                                         Ma halo
                                                        Len Torres
Sifu Leonard Torres 3rd degree
Lineage; Sijo-SGM Halbuna-SGM Conway-Me.
At least on the tree but trained with many others.
With all respect to Oahu & Mainland.

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2006, 12:12:39 PM »
Congradulations Sifu Len!!  We just ran a tournament out here with Sifu Al while he was visiting, and one of my students took first in the beginner's division with Siu Wan.  Last year another one of my students won the same event using Lim Po.  Done right, its hard to beat a kung fu form in competion, but then again they are hard to do right.
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
4th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Chapel Hill/Durham NC
www.tkfmma.com

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2006, 03:26:53 PM »
I will be sure to do so!  I am actually moving to NC soon to do graduate work, but will be having similar events down there as well--plus my Boston group will be managed by my senior student.  I'll be sure to stay in touch!
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
4th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Chapel Hill/Durham NC
www.tkfmma.com

Offline Jason Goldsmith

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Re: Forms in WHKD
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2006, 11:00:59 AM »
Aloha Sifu Len,

Sorry for the long delay.  Moving and settling into my new lab has been keeping me busy.  I am also looking foward to meeting you--I have yet to meet many of my WHKD brothers outside of Portland.  I look foward to watching you compete--and I definently know how you feel about point sparring.  In Boston, it's almost all Shodokan and TKD, and they don't count punchs that land while the back foot is on the ground--a problem when I fight out of Tiger Stance.  Personally, I like continuous sparring; much more suited to my fighting style. 

That is a beautiful tournament version of Silum #6 by the way.  Far more impressive than anything I can muster (forms are my weakest area by far, and that is a gorgeous form).  I am sure you will do quite well at the tournament.

See you soon!
Sifu Jason Goldsmith
4th Degree, Wun Hop Kuen Do Kung Fu
Under GM Al Dacascos
Instructor--WHKD
Chapel Hill/Durham NC
www.tkfmma.com