Author Topic: Groin Protection  (Read 16069 times)

Offline Mell

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Groin Protection
« on: June 12, 2003, 10:15:03 PM »
Love fighting!!!  I do get kicked the the groin occassionally and especially when doing self defense.  

I don't wear any type of protection.  I hate cumbersome things.  

Are you aware of any real dangers in this practice?  
Sibak Mellody Porter
ANDERSON MARTIAL ARTS - Grafton, Ohio
www.ohiokajukenbo.com
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Terry McBride

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2003, 01:18:20 AM »
Hi Mell,
I get kicked in the groin a lot and I wish to heck they'd make a hard protection for women like they do for men.  There have been times when I felt like I'd been violated. :).  It doesn't hurt us like the guys, but it can still hurt. Actually one of my gals was showing off and threw a high roundhouse kick to my asst. instructor's head, he came in with a blade meaning to strike her inner thigh.  He hit her square in the groin and she was in serious pain.  Could hardly sit down the next day.  

As far as long term problems I don't know.  I use a groin protection put out by Adidas and have just found another one I want to try out by Adidas that's looks to offer a little more protection.  Being kicked in the groin once in a while may not be harmful, but when it's everyday, I'm going to keep some sort of coverage.

While we're on the subject, consider breast cups.  I have been kicked square in the breast and dropped to my knees.  Painful! and not healthy.  I wear two sports bras when working out and just slip them in when I need them.  They work pretty well.  Have fun.  Terry

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2003, 02:26:19 PM »
(Psst. I'm a guy)

Most of the women in our club wear the same model groin cup the men do.  These women wanted to be treated like the rest of the boys, so they purchased the hard Bike brand cups and wear them for every class.   If you're interested, I can post one woman's written account of her selection process at Sportmart.

Since our art has a kick or punch to groin in just about every sequence, there is a lot of groin contact.   While the female anatomy is, ahem, different, students should be trained consistently against guys.  Since we workout by rank, a male student would be rather upset in having to pull his shots if he happens to rank the slot above a woman.  So, this is easily solved by having the women wear cups.  I rememberm plenty of training incidents in which "uncupped" women were rather upset in receiving a rising forearm shot, between the legs, to the pubic bone.

"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Brandi Ross

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2003, 02:26:34 AM »
I cannot remember where I saw it, but there is a women's model cup available.  I played softball for years and was a catcher.  Of course, this cup was developed after I finished playing ball.  You may want to check supply stores which specialize in SB/BSB.  You may even want to check Eastbay.  I imagine that they can lead you in the right direction.  As for us, we don't use anything currently.  Actually, we just started using chest protectors for everyone when we spar.  Hope this helps.
Brandi Ross
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Kingi's Kajukenbo
GM Rick Kingi
formerly under Sigung Alex Cadang

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2003, 04:11:15 PM »
Speaking with women that use the Bike hard cup in my club, they seem to be quite happy with it.  The point is to diffuse the impact to the pubic bone.  The male hard cup does this quite well.  While there are a number of
groin protection products for women, most of them don't
offer this sort of impact diffusion because they seem
be be designed for a slimmer, ahem, profile.  The protrusion isn't much of an issue with loose martial arts uniforms. Males have the same pubic bone issue and the Bike hard cup solves this well.   These cups are MUCH better than those designed for casual groin contact sports such as  baseball.

Honestly, a good cup has allowed our art to evolve to
include higher quality groin shots.  It takes most students a few months to get over the fear of the
impact to the pubic bone and the rattling of the genitalia.  After that mental training period is completed,
there is much work to be done.  heh heh.


"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Mell

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2003, 10:49:21 PM »
Interesting concept -

I wonder if men would be happier working with women if women wore cups that they could freely hit, without "worrying" about hurting or hitting us to hard?

OK, I know you guys are reading these womens posts, so how about it?  Would you be happier if we wore cups so you can execute self defense techiques more freely?
Sibak Mellody Porter
ANDERSON MARTIAL ARTS - Grafton, Ohio
www.ohiokajukenbo.com
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Offline Sifu Terry McBride

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2003, 12:15:20 AM »
The men I've worked out didn't seem to have a lot of trouble wanting to hold back kicks.  They seemed pretty solid to me and my ladies nail me frequently.  The idea of a hard cup has one problem, if you look at the protection currently available, it covers our reproductive area.  I've been hit there plenty of times and without some form of protection, I wonder what sort of long term damage it could cause.  Honestly I don't know, but don't want to find out the hard way.  We need some sort of hard plastic molded into what's out there now.  

Terry
Terry McBride, 5th degree under Professor Joel Purvis, under Grandmaster Emil Bautista
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Offline cirillo

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2003, 09:08:26 AM »
This is in response to the question posed to the men reading the posts.

I can't really say that I have fought women that have worn groin protection (as far as I know).  I can certainly say that when I have hit them hard to the groin (harder than I would have liked, say they step into a technique), the embarassment and sympathy for the injury has made me think twice about executing techniques to the groin directly (I prefer to strike to the inner thigh).  Is this good or bad?  I am not sure.  In my opinion for a male student, the freedom to strike women properly to the groin would definitely be a good thing.  As an instructor, it doesn't prevent me from showing a student that it is open without causing the student injury.  

Overall, I would imagine there is no reason not to wear the protection, thus, it should probably be required of all students.  I don't currently require it in my school, but I am certainly considering it based on this discussion.
Sifu Jeffrey D. Cirillo,  6th Degree Black belt in Wun Hop Kuen Do under GM Al Dacascos and 3rd Degree in FaChuan (Blossom Fist) under Sifu Bill Owens with over 35 years experience in the martial arts.
College Station, TX

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2003, 02:39:34 PM »
Hi,

One woman was a trailblazer in our club in 1999.
She bought her own cup.  Since then, new women
haven't blinked about buying and wearing a cup.
There is much to be said about precedent.
Although I've suggested that women wear the same
male groin cup for a decade, all went without one
until this particular woman came along.  Our art has
a groin kick/strike in just about every sequence.
The guys used to complain about having to hold
back strikes on women, and the groin cup alleviates
this issue quite a bit.  I suspect the improvement would
be less with arts that don't use groin techniques
heavily.  Also, I suspect that the women have a better
understanding of groin strikes simply because they
are able to receive contact in that area.

On the downside, I think techniques are unintentionally
altered for the cup.  Since the palstic bell ring is so satisfying, I find that many unwittingly go for the best
sound.  The technique then targets the da kine
instead of the testicles.

"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Mell

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2003, 08:56:12 PM »
I hate being slapped in the thigh!!!!!!!!!!!!  I would much rather get hit in the groin, that I really don't mind.  Some of the guys in our school do hit girls in the thigh, so I suppose a cup would be a better alternative for me.  
Sibak Mellody Porter
ANDERSON MARTIAL ARTS - Grafton, Ohio
www.ohiokajukenbo.com
www.watchthelamb.com

Offline DACS

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #10 on: July 05, 2003, 04:10:27 AM »
In our school groin protection is not mandatory but it is suggested. When I first started training I would only use a groin cup when I entered a tournament (it was mandatory). But two things changed that. First was my instructor needed a dummy and I volunteered. When he did the technique, the groin strike was with full impact. My knees slammed together and I dropped to the floor. All he said was "see, it works". And than he reminded me that I had the option of wearing one and that choosing not to wear one would be cheating myself and my training partners. My training partners would not be able to practice the technique without trying not to hurt me. The second thing was sparring practice. I was sparring with one of my instuctors and he threw a quick lead kick to my groin. Guess what? Cup broke and I didn't know until I felt a pinch...and guess what was pinched, starts with a "t". I just imagined if i hadn't been wearing a cup I would've been crushed, if you know what I mean.
Just for the record, a friend of mine has just been diagnosed with some kind of cancer. I'm not sure what kind it is, but they had to remove this tumor right above his groin area. The doctor said that more than likely, it was from being hit in the groin area a long time ago.
And in our school, when we train it is common to ask anyone male or female if they are wearing a groin cup. When we do self defense, if they aren't wearing a cup, we let tthem feel a charlie horse in their inner thigh, if we're sparring, we don't hold back...they end up getting a cup real soon.
Ramos Method
Wahiawa Kajukenbo

Offline Gints Klimanis

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Re: Groin Protection
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2006, 02:53:11 PM »
Here is a cup purchasing story of a woman that trained in my class in 1999, in her words:

"So I go to Sportmart to buy a cup, never having even seen one, much less worn one.  I go to the appropriate aisle, and am daunted by the wide selection of styles and sizes.  The only salesman available to help me unfortunately is about sixteen and looks very embarrassed to have a woman ask him for help with cup sizes.  He becomes even more  mbarrassed when he learns that the cup is for me.  He asks what size I want.  I tell him as small as possible.  He suggests a "women's" foam cup.  I tell him that won't do.  We finally settle on a "youth" size, on the basis of my smaller waist size.  The salesman cannot resist any longer, and finally says, "Well, it's still going to be too big.  You're not going to fill that out, you know."  Perhaps I should just bring an extra pair of socks to class? "

"We do not condone the use of a toilet seat as a deadly weapon"
Go Shin Jutsu Kenpo, 3rd Degree Black Belt Prof. Richard Lewis
Bono JKD/Kajukenbo, Prof. John Bono, San Jose, CA
Baltic Dog, Dog Brothers Martial Arts

Offline Brandi Ross

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Re: Groin Protection
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2006, 03:47:16 PM »
There are other products for women in other sports that are quite well made, especially for ice hockey and gymnastics! ;-p


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Brandi Ross
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juribe

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #13 on: December 01, 2006, 02:19:30 PM »
While we're on the subject, consider breast cups.  I have been kicked square in the breast and dropped to my knees.  Painful! and not healthy.  I wear two sports bras when working out and just slip them in when I need them.  They work pretty well.  Have fun.  Terry

While we're STILL on the subject, any experience with breast cups helping during grappling/JJ? A good squeeze or crush from side control can be very painful in this area. I'm not sure if cups will help or if they're mostly beneficial for strikes, kicks.

Offline rockatear

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Re:Groin Protection
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2006, 10:39:55 PM »
Hi Mell,
.....
While we're on the subject, consider breast cups.  I have been kicked square in the breast and dropped to my knees.  Painful! and not healthy.  I wear two sports bras when working out and just slip them in when I need them.  They work pretty well.  Have fun.  Terry

Hi Sifu Terry,

I've been wearing breast cups since about 6 years ago after taking a punch to one of my breasts.  We do a lot of punch attacks that are aimed for the solarl plexus or the face/chin and sometimes people miss or if they're blocked might slip down and make that last powerful contact with one of the breasts.  Of course, same in sparring only I think one is more vulnerable during the sparring because you're a moving target.

Jackie,

I think the breast cups are great for grappling as well especially if you're pinned under and twisting around trying to break free.  There's nothing like an opponent sitting on top of you trying to hold you down, you twist and their hand slips (usually the palm) while struggling.  The cup acts like protective armour since it's rounded.  I imagine they have to be the right size in order to be effective.  Actually I would prefer the larger size in grappling and a more fit one while sparring.  I stumbled on this accidentally when I ordered the wrong size.  Either way with either size you're protected as much as that can be in the situation.

As far as groin protection, I prefer the gear that sort of ends in a thong as opposed to a hard cup.  It provides additional pelvic protection that you don't get with a cup.

Respectfully,
Shirley Phelps, blue blelt, Hand to Hand Kajukenbo Self-Defense Center, Oakland, CA, www.handtohandkajukenbo.com, Gaylord Method, Chief Head Instructors:  Sifus Jen Resnick and Sonya Richardson